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Claudio   

Dear forumites,

I just purchased the bar of the above mentioned General, or I do believe it was. So was also described on Thies' auction catalogue, as Württembergian General.

However there are plus than one Wallenbergs who wore the rank of General. Nowever because of the Dates of birth and death, I think it can only be Walter (*26.06.1857 - 05.02.1945), 1914 - Oberst und Bezirkskommandeur Landwehrbezirk I Oldenburg. Char. Gen.Maj: 26.1.20. Strange that this General doesn't have any Oldenburg orders or medals on the bar.

Description of the orders and medals on the bar:   

  • Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Kl. am Kämpferband, 1914 (OEK 1909), E gs/S;
  • Preußen, Roter Adler Orden Kreuz 4. Klasse (OEK 1704), S;
  • Preußen, Preußen, DA-Kreuz für 25 Dienstjahre der Offiziere, 5. Form (OEK 1870/1), Br vg;
  • Preußen, Kaiser Wilhelm I. Erinnerungsmedaille 1897 (OEK 1965/1), Br vg ;
  • Bayern, Militär-Verdienstorden 4. Kl. mit Krone u. Schwertern (OEK 412), S/Sv emailliert Medaillon G;
  • Sachsen Königreich, Albrechts-Orden RK 1. Kl. mit Schwertern mit (OEK 2206), Sv;
  • Königreich Württemberg, Kronen-Orden Ritterkreuz mit Schwertern am Ring (OEK 2940), G emailliert;
  • 3. Reich (1933-45), Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (OEK 3803/1);
  • KuK Österreich-Ungarn, Orden der Eisernen Krone 3 Klasse mit KD, 3. Modell, Br vergoldet, BWK 608/ZK2 2066;
  • KuK Österreich-Ungarn, Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse, BWK1 240, 274, 283;
  • KuK Österreich-Ungarn, Marianerkreuz des Deutschen Ritterordens Brustkreuz, BWK1 281/ZK2 4087;
  • Osmanisches Reich, silberne kleine Liakat-Medaille mit Säbelbandspange, S.

 

I thank you in advance for all additional information (career, medals, etc.) you might come up with. I really do appreciate your efforts.

 

Thank you again.

 

Best regards,

 

Claudio

Capture.JPG

I forgot to say that this General got the so-called Gallipoli star... a beautiful cased Godet's piece!

Türk. Halbmond im Etui Godet_ex Thies_Auktion 20161210.PNG

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Paul C   

According to my sources Gen. Walter Wallenberg (1857-1945) did not have the above decorations. Additionally he was Prussian.

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Glenn J   

Claudio,

as Paul states, General Wallenberg was a Prussian and this bar is clearly also Prussian (although not General Wallenberg's). The nearest match that I can find is Hauptmann (later Oberstleutnant) Walter v. Rohrscheidt who was serving in the Prussian War Ministry at the beginning of the war and later with Infanterie-Regiment 329. His known awards were:

RAO4, BMV4XKr, SA3aX, WK3X, ÖEK3K, ÖM3K.

Regards

Glenn

 

 

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Claudio   

mmmh... interesting... so in that case this bar has nothing to do with Wallenberg... I'm wondering where Thies did get this name's attribution from...

The order of the first 4 medals is Prussian... I'm not convinced that this bar belonged to a citizen of Württemberg, but judging from the many "foreign orders" in the end of the bar, it makes sense that the wearer could have been a War Ministry officer or "im Generalstab"...

C

 

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Claudio   

This officer shown by Christophe shows his medal bar... 6 out 7 medals are a match (+ the Gallipoli star on the breast). But I don't think it's the same officer... he must be older (Zentenarmedaille and Pr DA 25). Such combinations weren't so rare... but with that Wurttemberg Crown Order...

 

1 minute ago, Claudio said:

This officer shown by Christophe shows his medal bar... 6 out 7 medals are a match (+ the Gallipoli star on the breast). But I don't think it's the same officer... he must be older (Zentenarmedaille and Pr DA 25). Such combinations weren't so rare... but with that Wurttemberg Crown Order...

 

 

post-176-0-73280800-1367664899.jpg

Edited by Claudio

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arb   

Claudio,

First, let me congratulate you on a fine medal bar!  Assuming Glenn is correct, and that is normally a very safe assumption☺☺, I can provide Rohrscheidt's career information.

 

I believe that this is a fine example of the career path of a Prussian military intelligence officer prior to the war.  I have seen many like this.  First, War Academy, then a two year stint at the General Staff.  Then, they spend several years attached, but not assigned, to an army corps HQ on either the eastern or western border.  His short detachment to the General staff late in 1910 to early 1911 convinces me he went back to learn the latest information the Gen. St. had and, perhaps more importantly, what information requirements the Gen. St. had that he would try to satisfy while on assignment.  That he went from the Kr. Min. to the intelligence department of the Gen. St. at mobilization makes it clear to me what his role was- intelligence officer.  We know that the military attachés (subordinate to the Gen. St.) conducted intelligence operations, Franz von Papen is a fine example of this, but these other officers, who moved quietly from post to post, must also have been tasked with intelligence requirements.  It is particularly telling that the detachments to the AK HQs were not listed in the MWB, just their attachment to the Gen. St.  They just showed up in the Rangliste as at the AK HQs. 

 

Again, congratulations of an exquisite medal bar.

 

Andy

 

Walter von Rohrscheidt  (25.03.1875-??)

30.11.20                        d. Char. als Oberstlt. erhalt.

Ehrenrangliste               Kom. d. Inf. R. 329

27.12.15                        Verbindungsoffiz. b. k.k. Ob. Komdo. Süd

02.08.14                        in Nachr. Abtl. d. Gen. St. d. Feldheeres

17.02.14-02.08.14          in Min. Abtl. (Z 1) im Kr. Min.

1914-17.02.14                k.z. Dienstl. b. Kr. Min.

23.05.11-1914                k.z. Dienstl. b. XVI. AK  (Metz), zuget. d. gr. Gen. St., U.d. Gren. R. 7

[01.11.10-31.01.11         k.z. Dienstl. b. gr. Gen. St.]

21.03.08-23.05.11          Chef 7./Gren. R. 7  (Liegnitz)

01.04.06-21.03.08          k.z. Dienstl. b. gr. Gen. St. v. Füs. R. 80

01.10.02-21.07.05          k.z. Kr. Akad.

01.10.01-01.10.02          in 4./Füs. R. 80  (Wiesbaden)

01.10.98-30.09.01          Adj. III./Füs. R. 80  (Homburg v.d. Höhe)

22.03.9301.10.98           Komp. Offiz. in Füs. R. 80  (Wiesbaden)

22.03.93                        als Sek.Lt. v. Kad. K. d. Füs. R. 80 überw.

 

Major    19-08-14 M5m

Hptm.   21-03-08 F8f

Oberlt.  22-03-02 U3u

Leutn.   22-03-93 K

 

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Claudio   

Thanks Andy! Thank you Glenn! :thumbup:

Well... then the catalogue's description was not correct.

If it's him, he did write also a couple of books about WWI, like:
Warum haben wir die Schlacht an der Marne verloren?
https://www.zvab.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=20338671885&searchurl=hl%3Don%26sortby%3D20%26an%3DROHRSCHEIDT%2C%2BWALTER%2BV%2B

Unsere Baltikum-Kämpfer: die Ereignisse im Baltikum 1918 und 1919

https://books.google.ch/books/about/Unsere_Baltikum_Kämpfer.html?id=1I3JMgEACAAJ&redir_esc=y

 

C

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Deruelle   

Hi Claudio

 

As always your collection is amazing. This is a very nice medal bar. I like a lot the iron cressent. Congrats.

I think it might be id. I don't remember where I have seen this combo but I have seen medal bar with that combo elsewehre but where.

I'm still digging

Christophe

 

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Claudio   

Hi Christophe!

Interesting what you say... I don't remember to have already seen this bar on the market before. But it would be most interesting to know its previous owners or provenance...

Let me know... I am curious.

ciao,

Claudio 

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