Lippe Detmold WW1 Noncombatant Trio

[Guest Rick Research]

I was an idiot to have ever sold this, but back in the mid 1990s, there were no award numbers available and-- who knew?

Scanned my "former baby" today with permission to share here with you all and most especially Solomon:

[attachmentid=32890]

[Guest Rick Research]

It is the now much abused and beloved by fakers "flat bottom" style.

[attachmentid=32893]

It is a bit shabby after all these years, but any original medal bar like this that starts with one of 13,000 "white black" noncombatant 1914 Iron Crosses only gets MUCH much better with...

[Guest Rick Research]

[attachmentid=32895]

1 of 1,117 NONcombatant Lippe War Merit Crosses

1 of 1,249 NONcombatant Lippe War Merit Medals

and

1 of 1,023 1897 Medals for the disputed accession royal court legal battles

[Solomon]

I was an idiot to have ever sold this, but back in the mid 1990s, there were no award numbers available and-- who knew?

Scanned my "former baby" today with permission to share here with you all and most especially Solomon:

Really very,very nice bar of a non-combatant

The person who sold this rare example from Lippe-Detmold must be a crazy guy, I would never do that

Greetings

Solomon

Edited April 2, 2006 by Solomon

[Ulsterman]

Bloody heck!

That is a really, really good bar.

Any chance you can ever swap it back?

[Claudio]

Hi Rick,

These are really great bars... such bars with medals of the small German states (as Lippe Detmold for instance) are really great fun to collect. Usually in Germany there are quite a few enthusiast collectors who specialize in collecting medals of an individual state. That's why sometimes a collector who wants to fill a gap in his very special collection would spend much more than the usual market price. Such bars were sold like peanuts at Thies auction houses and fetched very high prices.

I particularly liked this one (see below), but if I remember correctly, it went for much above of the 1'000.- Euros mark...

This bar came even with a name... Very nice indeed!

Ciao,

Claudio

[medalnet]

I hate to put this one in here, too, but have always been wondering if an identification would be possible:

[attachmentid=33035]

[Solomon]

[...]

That's why sometimes a collector who wants to fill a gap in his very special collection would spend much more than the usual market price. Such bars were sold like peanuts at Thies auction houses and fetched very high prices.

I particularly liked this one (see below), but if I remember correctly, it went for much above of the 1'000.- Euros mark...

This bar came even with a name... Very nice indeed!

Ciao,

Claudio

Hi Claudio,

the prices for these awards of a small principality are high, that?s right.

But when you look at the number of awards and at the possibility how many still today exist, IMO the prices are quite fair.

For example, there is a nice golden merit-cross (Leopold-Orden) from C.F. Zimmermann at the bar you found in a catalogue...this cross was awarded only 107 times

Because of that I don?t think the price was too high...

(Maybe I?m also one of the insane collectors you mentioned )

Greetings

Solomon

[Claudio]

@ Andreas: I think that when the bar you showed was sold at Zeige, it came with a "Steckkreuz" of the lippischer Hausorden mit Schwertern... Quite rare this combination... the order is not correct... the KVK 2. Kl. 1939 should come right after the EK... but I guess this guy was quite proud to be a lippischer B?rger!

@ Solomon: Yes, you're completely right. Some of these medals from the little duchies or principalities are much rarer of a "sexy" (a least for many) Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes... Do you collect only Lippe?

Ciao,

Claudio

[Claudio]

for Andreas...

Is it in your collection now?

Ciao,

Claudio

[medalnet]

Claudio,

you are too fast, while I am still trying to find that pin back cross picture all is posted already. No, I do not own this one, but was always courious about this group. Especially because of the officers cross, which can be found at:

Lippe Officer Cross Swords and Swords on Ring

Edited April 3, 2006 by medalnet

[Claudio]

No sweat for me Andreas... I filed all interesting bars that I followed in auction, just in case! Sometimes it's interesting see the whereabouts of such bars... all of sudden they appear again on the market et voil?!

I don't about the Steckkreuz... Have they ever been issued with that configuration of swords (swords through the middle of the cross and swords "am Ring")... that is quite unique since the ones with only the swords through the middle of the cross, weren't surely awarded more than, let's say, 20-30 times tops!

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited April 3, 2006 by Claudio

[medalnet]

Swords on ring were issued, yet rather late. The piece has the correct swords on ring. Non doubt. The swords through the middle are old as well, but from different manufacturer. Very interesting in my opinion.

[Claudio]

From the picture of the back it looks like the swords "am Ring" are part of the cross and hadn't been applied after...

[Solomon]

@ Solomon: Yes, you're completely right. Some of these medals from the little duchies or principalities are much rarer of a "sexy" (a least for many) Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes... Do you collect only Lippe?

No,no...my collection from Prussia is much bigger than from Lippe-Detmold.

There are also many photos and a few documents from my family (e.g. from my great grandfather) and

some WW II-awards (but I don?t really invest in this time)

But because I live next to Detmold, this principal is my favorite...

Greetings

Solomon

[Claudio]

Here I post a picture of the reverse of "Andrea's" bar... just out of curiosity!

[medalnet]

Very nice indeed.

The swords on ring as well as those regular ones were actually applied seperatly. Yet, this all happend before the gilding process. I examined the piece and liked it very much. I hope to get the new Lippe Book rather soon. Maybe it will bring some light into this matter.

[Deruelle]

This is a very interresting thread. I like Lippe honor cross. I have order the Lippe book. May be I will find more info about my Lippe' ribbon bar.

Regards

Christophe

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Since we have touched on swords to the order, I thought that you might enjoy this little (prinzen) cross.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Deruelle]

What a beauty ! It is hallmark ? How many such cross were awarded ?

Regards

Christophe

[MattGibbs]

Superb items. I love these imperial awards, but I am too frightened to open pandoras box and buy any, then I might want more! LOL.

I like the non-combatants bar the most I think, probably because of what made it more researchable!

Smart items.

Regards

Matt Gibbs

[Wild Card]

Thank you Deruelle. According to Nimmergut, there were 37 such awards. Here is a better view of the hallmark on my prinzen cross.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Bob Hunter]

Ahhhhhh, Rick, don't you just hate that hindsight is such an exact science?

[Solomon]

Thank you Deruelle. According to Nimmergut, there were 37 such awards.

Right, the "Lippe-book" confirms this number of awards...by the way...there were two makers of these crosses:

J.Godet & Sohn and C.F.Zimmermann

I like these crosses also very much...last year I missed the chance to get one (because of the price)

Greetings

Solomon

[Jacky]

Dear Gents,

May I bother you all with a stupid question??

*stupid??? My Professor always said that there aren't stupid questions but just stupid answers *

anyway....

I have been offered an lippe Detmold cross without the ribbon (it had to be on a ribbon)

this image is lacking a ring on the upper cross-arm and it had been copied from this site

Together with it was another medal,

I thought it was the Bavarian Merit Order with swords

it looks like this without the enamel and with a gold/bronze finish not sure about its color.

Copied from Camp 11

what do you gents think of it's value ?nd the ability to re-ribbon the lippe detmold cross???

Thanks in advance,

Kind regards,

Jacky