Badge of the 199th Kronstadt Infantry Regiment

[paja]

I started this topic on behalf of a fellow collector who has acquired this badge recently. As I am far from expert for Imperial Russia we would be grateful if someone could give us definitive answer whether it's original or not. 

All comments are more than welcome. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by paja

[Claudius]

I don't think it is a genuine badge. 

The anchor/monogram motif is unusually crude and there are voids.  The enamel is crazed, but is very shiny and yellowed.  The back shows casting features and the hallmarks are unconvincing as struck and look like they were merely impressed.

[Daffy Duck]

Actually, I am that fellow collector. Many thanks to  Paja, who was kind enough to publish this item here.

I have found it in France, and  the previous owner didn't known what  that actually is. As a collector of Serbian and Yugoslav orders and medals, I am not so familiar with imperial Russian artefacts, but, there is some dirt inside of central medallion, as well as under the magnifying glasses, all marks appear to be in line with all I could find online. There is Moscow ,,Kokosnik" sign with number 84.

As I am new to this wonderful forum, I will try to uploade some additional pictures. This appears to be quite rare badge as this infantry unit existed only for few years. Maybe it's a wartime production, which could be the reason of strange enamel ( but without any trace of modern touch)

All comments are more then welcome, as well as helpfull.

 

 

[Egorka]

Hello, 

Looks quite crude, doesn't it?

Check out the link http://www.auction-imperia.ru/wdate.php?t=offline&i=5227

 

[Daffy Duck]

As far as I know (and my knowledge about Russian imperial items is quite limited) there are at least two different types of officers badges. One you have just posted and another without a disk like the one here:

https://m.ok.ru/morpehspb/topic/65728091026837

[Claudius]

1 hour ago, Daffy Duck said:

Actually, I am that fellow collector. Many thanks to  Paja, who was kind enough to publish this item here.

I have found it in France, and  the previous owner didn't known what  that actually is. As a collector of Serbian and Yugoslav orders and medals, I am not so familiar with imperial Russian artefacts, but, there is some dirt inside of central medallion, as well as under the magnifying glasses, all marks appear to be in line with all I could find online. There is Moscow ,,Kokosnik" sign with number 84.

As I am new to this wonderful forum, I will try to uploade some additional pictures. This appears to be quite rare badge as this infantry unit existed only for few years. Maybe it's a wartime production, which could be the reason of strange enamel ( but without any trace of modern touch)

All comments are more then welcome, as well as helpfull.

 

 

Hello Daffy Duck;

First of all - I should have stated this with my earlier response; I want to say CLEARLY that my opinion on any of your medals or badges that you display is NOT an attack on you personally.  

I do agree with you that more comments on this badge would be beneficial.  Specifically from those who have either personally handled known examples of the Kronstadt IR badge or many similar badges.  It is from years of examining several good examples that their patterns of workmanship become evident. 

 

[Egorka]

12 hours ago, Daffy Duck said:

As far as I know (and my knowledge about Russian imperial items is quite limited) there are at least two different types of officers badges. One you have just posted and another without a disk like the one here:

https://m.ok.ru/morpehspb/topic/65728091026837

I am in no way an expert. Never held them myself. Just sharing thoughts.

Another variation is like this one. Look for the lot 329 (Лот 326):

https://numismat.ru/au.shtml?au=104&per=0&descr=&material=0&nominal=0&lottype=0&ordername=1&orderdirection=ASC&num=20&&page=10

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Egorka

[Daffy Duck]

Not at all. Once again, I came to this forum to learn something new.

I would really like to know more about this badge and to learn something about russian imperial items.

[Daffy Duck]

Here are some additional pictures

[paja]

Claudius already mentioned some of the issues that caught my attention as well,  I'd like to point out just couple of things. First of all the central part is hollow, there's no base bellow the monograms, you can see through it, that's not the case with other shown examples. It also appears to be larger and not centered. 
In my opinion hallmark on the back side is Cyrillic VD (ВД) and the badge from Imperia has the same hallmark: http://www.auction-imperia.ru/wdate.php?t=offline&i=5227 
Same producer?

Edited June 4, 2017 by paja

[JapanX]

On 03.06.2017 at 02:38, Daffy Duck said:

Here are some additional pictures

Fake badge with fake silver marks.

Original marks  

VS.