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Carol I

Photo of old Austrian unit

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Carol I   

I would appreciate any information regarding this photo.

Can you identify the location? Or the unit? Other details?

img_091.thumb.jpg.e82482ab07dd778b84603a54e6b62b24.jpg

I have tried to blow up the inscription above the gates. 

img_093.jpg.15909070e7a60b8a0a5c95e56d7d6b41.jpg

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Carol I   

Thanks for the reply, but there seems to be only forest there now. Is there any remnant of the building in the forest?

I feel somehow that we have to continue the search and look for a suburb of a larger city. Metalka has a Slavic resonance, so my bets are for Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia or something similar.

What can you tell about the uniforms or the unit?

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Look some hundred meters higher, and you can see there several houses.

This place is described in some books. For example a military adventure from Plevlje via Metalka to Sarajewo:

"Den Weg von Plevlje bis Metalka legten wir in Gewaltmärschen zurück. Wir hielten uns meist an die von Österreichern angelegte Straße. In Metalka empfing uns österreichisches Militär. Wir wurden entwaffnet und nach Sarajewo gebracht."

Please see on the map the way fom (now) Pljevlja via (now) Metaljka to (now) Sarajevo.

Believe it or not.

Uwe

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paja   
1 hour ago, Carol I said:

I feel somehow that we have to continue the search and look for a suburb of a larger city. Metalka has a Slavic resonance, so my bets are for Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia or something similar.

And why not Bosnia and Herzegovina? Slavic people live there as well :) I read somewhere that Metaljka (Метаљка) became the border checkpoint in 1908 and it still is today.
A few years ago I actually went through Pljevlja and Metaljka on my way to Foča and later Sarajevo during the winter blizzard and it was no joke. I can only imagine what was it like up there during the winter a century ago. 

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paja   

"Gruss aus Metalka", scan found here. Perhaps the largest building above the village is the same one as on your photo.
440h.jpg.c694438fa9aa93f2646902a86751d20a.jpg

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Yes, it is definitely the same building. You can find it on other post cards too.

And see on the card above the location "Plevlje"

Uwe

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Hello!

In Metaljka was only a border station, no garrisson.

Until 1899 in Plevlje was staff, 1., 3. and 4. bataillon of the hungarian 2nd Inf.Rgt :

http://www.mlorenz.at/images/Oe-U_Garnisonen_1898.jpg

Since 1899 it was in Kronstadt (Brasov) and Hermannstadt (Sibiu):

http://www.mlorenz.at/images/Seidels_Armeeschema/1908/Seidels_Armeeschema_1908_042-043.jpg

Here is a today´s map:

https://www.google.de/maps/dir/Metaljka,+Bosnien+und+Herzegowina/Pljevlja,+Montenegro/@43.4685753,19.1860479,11.79z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x47586e4988767175:0x57fdbb183f60066c!2m2!1d19.156478!2d43.538586!1m5!1m1!1s0x47580844f4917229:0xe23cd955c6680a74!2m2!1d19.3512591!2d43.3582371

Here a part of the ranklist 1898:

Screenshot (101).jpg

Edited by The Prussian

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Carol I   

Thank you all for the additional information. A picture is worth a thousand words: the building in the photo looks like the building in the postcard posted by Paja. Can you comment on the inscription above the gates?

Now some background information. I have found the photo among some old papers from my wife’s side. Her great grandfather, a Transylvanian Saxon, (photo below), had been in the Austrian army but no other details were available except a move to Prague between 1917-1918 with his whole family. I have mentioned him before on the forum but the photos have disappeared there.

59831b7b7a7e7_EduardGurtesch.jpg.26ffb04ec348dbab908dc8c97c6b9851.jpg

From your posts I suspect that he served in the 2nd Hungarian Infantry Regiment and he was probably posted in Metalka, Bosnia before 1899. Can anyone spot him in the photo? After that he married a girl from Bistrita (Bistritz or Nösen) and they had a daughter in 1902.

I would appreciate if you can give any other information about the regiment and its moves.

Edited by Carol I

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Carol I   
12 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Here a part of the ranklist 1898:

Screenshot (101).jpg

Hi! Can you post the whole list? Maybe we can find him there. His name was Eduard Victor Gürtesch. Thanks in advance.

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Here we go.

But i couldn´t find a man with that name in the 1898 ranklist. Was he an officer?

Screenshot (102).jpg

Screenshot (103).jpg

Screenshot (104).jpg

Edited by The Prussian

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Carol I   

Thanks a lot. I think he was only NCO. Earlier opinions on the forum based on the studio photo were Zugsführer or Feldwebel. I think I have identified him in the first photo. What can you say about his rank in comparison to the studio photo?

EVGurtesch.jpg.5df96d3d1e15aef2518b0c472e88db0a.jpg

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Hello!

Could I have a big scan of the collar of the soldier, please?

Three stars were worn from Captains and Feldwebel.

By the way:

In Besztercze were 1., 2., 3. Btl. of Inf.Rgt. 63 and 2.Btl. of Landwehr-Regiment 22

Edited by The Prussian

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Ah. That's clear. Now we see the braid  around the coller. It is a Fähnrich (Aspirant Officer)

Edited by The Prussian

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Carol I   
3 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Ah. That's clear. Now we see the braid  around the coller. it is an  NCO

What was his rank in the Metalka photo? Was he a Feldwebel in the studio photo?

Was his uniform special in any way? In the family he was mentioned as being part of the Austrian military postal service in the last years of the empire. After the war he settled in the Itcani (Itzkany in German) suburb of Suceava, where he worked for the Romanian postal service until the 1930s.

Detail of the studio photo.

Eduard_Gurtesch.thumb.jpg.411ea27380a48ef956033e57739d695c.jpg

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Hello!

Thanks for the zoom!

The rank on this photo is Zugsführer. The ranks are:

Gemeiner (simple soldier)

Gefreiter (Lance-Corporal)

Korporal (Corporal)

Zugsgführer (Sergeant)

Feldwebel (Colour-Sergeant)

By the way, the photo with the single star indicates him as a Fähnrich (Aspirant-Officer). I don´t know, if in english that´s an NCO too...

Edited by The Prussian

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Bayern   

The Prussian : The austro hungarian Fahnrich was  classed between the oficers , so weared officers kepi and cockade , and was admitted in the officers mess . 

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Hello!

Yes, I just didn´t know, if that rank belonged to The "Non-commissioned officers"...

Do you know what the thin white line close to the stars means?

If he was in Inf.Rgt.63, the facing-colour was "orange-yellow". That could fit, because on b/w photos yellow colours appeared very dark (like black)

Edited by The Prussian

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Bayern   

Hello : In the group photo he bears the rank of fahnrich or before 1908 cadet deputy officer , in the studio photo h bears the rank of feldwebel , 3 celluloid stars and the yellow silk borte , i think that the white line is to the purpose of delineate neatly the golden yellow borte over the orange yellow patch . The regiments with pike grey patches used the patch with a thin white piping . 

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Carol I   

Thank you all for the replies. You seem to have extraordinary knowledge. With your help I can conclude that in the studio photo from Bistrita, most likely taken in 1898 (he wears the Jubilee Commemorative Medal of 1898 - maybe the reason to take the photo), Eduard was a feldwebel. Then, in the group photo taken at the latest in 1899 (maybe it marked the end of the 'Metalka-era' of the regiment), Eduard was a fähnrich.

Now it remains the question of the regiments in which he served. In 1898 he could have been part of the 63rd Infantry Regiment. Then in 1899 he was part of the 2nd Hungarian Infantry Regiment stationed in Metalka.

I understand that the collar colour of the 63rd Infantry Regiment was orange-yellow.  What was the colour of the 2nd Hungarian Infantry Regiment? Or of the 22nd Landwehr Regiment?

I have seen that the latter was stationed in Cernauti (Czernowitz in German). Maybe this was the reason Eduard later settled in Bucovina?

Was any of these regiments stationed in Prague between 1917-1918?

A bit of quick research showed that 32ndLandwehr Regiment was also stationed in Bistrita, so I think we should add this to our detective search.

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Bayern   

The Imperial and Royal 2nd hungarian Infantry Regiment weared Kaisergelb collar and cuffs and gold buttons . the colour was a deep yellow . The Imperial Royal Landwehr used for all their Infantry Regiments Grass green collar and cuffs . The Royal hungarian Honved Infantry used no distinctive collar and cuff colour , with the field uniform pike grey , the collar patches were dark blue grey , The Landwehr was recruited into the Austrian part and this included Bohemia moravia . and Prague . 

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Carol I   

Thank you all for your contributions on this detective search. I am amazed by all your knowledge and for how quick you have replied me.

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