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Paul Deane

Help with a old photograph

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Hi,

I'm trying to help my friend find information about her grandfather's military career. She has very little information except the photo I've attached below. He was born in 1920, she thinks he served in World War 2 and stayed in the Indian Army until around 1975. From the research I've done, that looks like a Regiment of Artillery badge on his turban and maybe the insignia of a Major on his shoulder straps. Any insights on the ribbon bar or anything else that someone with more experience might have would be greatly appreciated.

Also any pointers on where else to find more information would be very helpful. If he served in World War 2 would his records still be held by the MOD?

Thanks and regards

Cropped_15085603_10105940768059993_7488813295017207554_n.jpg

Ribbon_bar_enhanced.jpg

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I will try to figure out the ribbon bar, since it's a black and white picture that makes it little difficult guess.

Top left to right - 1. General Service medals 2. Paschimi Star 3. Samar Seva Star, 4. Raksha Medal 5. Ribbon not clear (possibly Sangram) 6. Sainya Seva Medal (possibly there but not clear in pic) 7. 20 years long service medal 8. 9 year long service medal 9. Indian independence medal 10. 1939 - 45 star 11. Burma Star 12. British war medal 13. India service medal

I hope you find this helpful

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Below are the ribbons for the campaign medals   identified:General Service Medal, 1947, Paschimi Star, 1971, Samar Seva, 1965, Raksha Medal, 1965, 1971-72, Sainya Seva Medal.  Judging by this area, the officer was a late WWII or just post-war enlistment – GSM 1947 – and served until at least 1971.  Quite a career and clearly ‘at the sharp end’ a good bit, as one would expect from a Gunner.  Shabash, huzzor!

 

India_General_Service_Medal_1947.svg.png

IND_Paschimi_Star_Ribbon.svg.png

IND_Samar_Seva_Star_Ribbon.svg.png

IND_Raksha_Medal_Ribbon.svg.png

IND_Sainya_Seva_Medal_Ribbon.svg.png

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His General Service medal would be with clasp Jammu and Kashmir 1947 missed out mentioning that

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Thanks so much for your help. It certainly helps illuminate his career and point me in the right direction to try find out more details.

All the best

Paul

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Paul,

As others have pointed out the recipient is a Sikh, wearing rank insignia of Major, and the badge of the Regiment of Artillery.

Critically, the portrait photograph / sitting was made prior to April 1971.

The Armed Forces 20 years and 7 Years Long Service Medals were only instituted on 19 April 1971. Per the published Orders of Precedence, those long service medals - worn in that order - followed (and did not preceed) the Independence Medal 1947, which the recipient wears at the very end of his second row of ribbons.

positive identification of  the recipients complete 10 x medal ribbon grouping is;

- India: General Service Medal 1947. Only awarded with a campaign clasp (5 x clasps issued by 1970)

- India: Samar Seva Star (for service in the combat zone(s) during 1965 War)

- India: Raksha Medal (for 1965 War)

- India: Sainya Seva Medal. Only awarded with a geographic region clasp (5 x clasps issued by 1970)

- India: Videsh Seva Medal (Overseas Service). Only issued with a clasp (many clasps issued by 1970)

- India: Independence Medal

- United Kingdom: The 1939-45 Star

- United Kingdom: The Burma Star

- United Kingdom: War Medal

- United Kingdom: India Service Medal

Notes.

1. It is not possible from the photograph to determine with any certainty what the clasp(s) the recipient may have been entitled to. What is certain s that of the 5 x clasps awarded with the medal upto and including 1971, he would NOT have been entitled to the clasp for 'Overseas Korea', as the Indian Contingent deployed to Korea was a specialist Medical unit, and did not include personnel seconded from the Regiment of Artillery.

The most common awarded clasp of the pre 1971 clasps to the GSM 1947 is 'Naga Hills', followed by 'Jammu & Kashmir 1947-1948'

2. Like above, it is not possible from the photograph to determine with any certainty what the clasp(s) the recipient may have been entitled to for the Videsh Seva Medal. What is certain is that of the clasps awarded with the medal upto and including 1971, he would NOT have been entitled to any of the Congo, United Arab Republic or Indochina clasps, as qualification of those clasps also entitled the recipient to wear the respective United Nations/ International Control Commission medal ribands - none of which the recipient wears in the photograph

The most common clasps awarded with the Videsh Seva Medal prior to 1971, and which did not come with 'second medals', and or, are not clasps reserved for specialist attache / observer / secondment duties, are those for service in 'Bhutan' or 'Nepal' - Bhutan service being the most common

3. If the recipient was still serving through to December 1971, he would 'after' the photograph here was taken, have been entitled to at least another 3 x medals / ribands viz, Samanya Seva Medal (for 1971 War); 20 Years Long Service; 9 Years Long Service - and possibly one or both of the Poorvi & Paschmi Stars for the 1971 War as specified

As information.

Mark

 

Edited by Aberdeen Medals
Alignment

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On 12/11/2017 at 22:57, Paul Deane said:

Hi,

I'm trying to help my friend find information about her grandfather's military career. She has very little information except the photo I've attached below. He was born in 1920, she thinks he served in World War 2 and stayed in the Indian Army until around 1975. From the research I've done, that looks like a Regiment of Artillery badge on his turban and maybe the insignia of a Major on his shoulder straps. Any insights on the ribbon bar or anything else that someone with more experience might have would be greatly appreciated.

Also any pointers on where else to find more information would be very helpful. If he served in World War 2 would his records still be held by the MOD?

Thanks and regards

Cropped_15085603_10105940768059993_7488813295017207554_n.jpg

Ribbon_bar_enhanced.jpg

Can you obtain & share  the name of the officer ? 

His record would be available in the MOD, ideally his IC Number would help as the start point . 

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