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I'm crosseyed looking at cyphers!

The simple cigarette case below has one on one side and his wife, presumably (with the smaller coronet), on the other.  I'm guessing it's a household gift to someone of not-exalted rank.

But who from?  FA and SW or WS.  I know there was a Friedrich August in Saxony and another in Oldenburg at this time, but the other cypher doesn't match their wives.

Hallmarks are : crown, 800, 201236, D.R.G.M. and BC.  My DRGM list dates this to 1903.

Can anyone help?DSC03810.thumb.JPG.e60c396dc060841f9041759277e9b6f5.JPGDSC03812.thumb.JPG.c44787adc7022cbc5a2a4e48e6c781cf.JPGDSC03818.thumb.JPG.7f7f2fd57ce6141a52d95e04967b4ced.JPG

 

Edited by Luftmensch

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the first heraldic crown (Rangkrone) is a king's crown - the second with the 5 points and pearls is a German nobility crown.

 

 

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So, that eliminates Friedrich August II, Grand Duke of Oldenburg?

Leaving Friedrich August III, King of Saxony?

But who is SW?

FA's wife (who ran away after being accused of sleeping with her dentist, a man named O'Brien) was called:

Luise Antoinette Maria Theresia Josepha Johanna Leopoldine Caroline Ferdinande Alice Ernestine, Princess Imperial and Archduchess of Austria, Princess of Tuscany, Hungary and Bohemia.

Every letter in the alphabet but SW....

 

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I think The initials SW or WS are not of a wife to a king or even a Grand-Duke - since the five pearl pointed crown indicates the lowest nobility rank. More likely a gift to an officer with the above initials.

Edited by Naxos

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those are all titled nobles - those with the five pointed crown are untitled so the family is of noble stock but the individual member is of a noble family but without a title so he is 'just' Herr J.A. von Whatever. Noble titles are usually associated with landed property and he who holds the title to the land also holds the noble title, his relatives who do not hold the title to the land do therefore not hold a noble title but are still members of a noble family and are therefore nobles. Is that clear?

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Understand, though I imagine it gets more complicated from there--those who were ennobled or "entitled" in the King's service, like Count von Bismarck, who probably started out in life as just another Junker with a five pointed crown.   I wonder if he was given a land grant? 

At any rate, thanks for the clarification.      

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As for Bismarck I would need to check to be sure but I believe his titles were linked to various landed estates that were added to Prussia under Bismarck's 'reign' and given to him by German Emperor and with the titles came different crowns. I would assume that he started out with a five pointed crown being of an old noble family but without a title. 

Edited by kaiserwilhelm2

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Hi,

from 1865 Graf von Bismarck-Schönhausen,  1871 Fürst von Bismarck, from 1890 also Herzog zu Lauenburg, a title he himself did not want nor used. He lived in Reinbek which was part of the county/district of Storman bordering Lauenburg.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC

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Hello : The five pearl crown is a modern nobilty crown for noblemen without title .in Germany . modern refers to the class of nobilty .

Otto von Bismarck was by birth only Herr von Bismarck Schoenhausen .

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