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IMG_E0205.thumb.JPG.82257e42c4a2d615801347f4d9f46749.JPGIMG_E0204.thumb.JPG.4566fce49ebd36dd29c5486815a15a71.JPGTwo badges I picked up some time ago.  My minimal research suggests that they were worn on the helmet and perhaps also on the first peaked caps, sometime between the 1880s and the 1920s.  One is complet, the other missing the central device.  The second was clearly painted black at one time as well. 

Edited by peter monahan

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I think you will find they are cap badges. The helmet plates are three times that size.

Dave.

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I concur that these are cap badges for forage caps (peaked caps). Whereas the custodian helmet (with its larger helmet plate) was in use for general patrol, by the  the early 1920's, forage caps were in use for specialized positions such as mounted officers, motorcycle duty, bandsmen, senior officers, and others . By the late 40's early 1950's forage caps were were in widespread use, and continue to be the standard headress for the Toronto Police Service. The helmet plate and the forage cap's badges were the same in design but differed in size (whereas the senior officers wore a different cap badge bearing the City of Toronto's coat of arms).

 

Here are some photos from the City of Toronto Archives:

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1920, Three Policemen (The other officers are wearing the winter patrol lambskin hat)

 

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1923, Toronto Police Silver Band at Massey Hall

 

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1924, Inspector Essen Bond (wearing the different cap badge for senior officers)

 

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1926, Motorcycle Division with Chief Draper

 

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1929, Police Promotions - George Smith (the larger helmet plate is apparent)

 

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1949, Police Constables in new Summer Dress

 

 

Edited by SemperParatus

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I see what you mean about the comparativce sizes of the cap badge and the helmet plate!  As I say, my research was sketchy at best.

Lovely photos, BTW.  I assume and hope that they are part of the TPD museum's collection.

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When I first read this post I thought to myself that I have a Canadian police helmet and photo that the members in this section might find interesting.  It has literally taken me this long to locate the photo to show as proof of sorts that the helmet and badge belong together as one can alter any helmet to support a claim.  I should not refer to this post as a “claim” as I am not claiming anything only showing what I have in my collection regarding the helmet plate versus the hat badge in use. I agree with everything that has been said here by people obviously more informed than me.  No, I am not stroking egos here, just facing facts that I am in unfamiliar waters.  So please be kind when you respond as I propose no argument.

 

A number of years ago, possibly more than a decade past I was in an antiques shop in Barrie Ontario and saw a police helmet with a Canadian police hat badge attached.  At lease I assumed it was a hat badge as it was too small to be a helmet plate.  Beside the helmet was a photo of a police officer standing beside what I believe is a 1925 Studebaker.  The officer is wearing a police helmet with a small badge, perhaps a hat badge affixed to the helmet.  The dealer made no claim as to the helmet’s authenticity and from our conversation it was clear he knew nothing about police collectables, nor really cared for that matter. The photo he claimed came from St. Catharines Ontario and the police sign on the door supported this.  He did say that the helmet came from the same “pick”.  I hope the photo of the officer is clear enough to make out the badge.  I am not sure why the helmet looks white perhaps a trick of the camera; my background in the helmet photo was white so as you can see cameras can be fooled.  Perhaps St. Catharines Police Dept. used white helmets in the 1920s I have not researched that as I placed the photo in a box shortly after I purchased it and it has remained there ever since.  The helmet was not over priced however the photo did not come cheaply at over four times the price of the helmet, making the helmet almost like a bonus for purchasing the photo.

 

The helmet appears to be of an older style from its side profile as well as the inner parts being only a leather sweat band and attached chin strap.  There are attachment holes and a faint outline of a former helmet plate from times past.  If this is an original helmet then I would speculate that the helmet plate may have even been Victorian and after she passed way it was replaced, eventually, with a Kings Crown hat badge; perhaps as a money saving measure.  I would think the forage hat with its smaller badge was at least in the planning stages as a replace the old helmets by the early 1920s.   

 

I hope you all find this interesting even though it really proves nothing unless it is that in collecting almost anything can happen.

 

Regards

Brian

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Sound reasoning Brian, loads of practical explanations for the hat badge on the helmet being used. My examples were merely from Toronto. It looks like William Scully sold these types of hat badges to many Canadian departments.

As for the white helmet - I can tell you that Toronto Police practice was to wear white helmets during the summer months.

Edited by SemperParatus

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Brian,

A nice original helmet. Almost certainly made in the UK. I don't think that the smaller badge on it is indicative of anything sinister. Small agencies often used what was available.

Dave. 

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Hi fellows,

I’m sure there were many examples of use what you have the budget is tanked in the past. I really like my “Canadian” helmet even though it is in the poorest condition of the rest of the collection.

Regards

Brian

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