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Posted (edited)

Can anyone help to id this bar?

I've been told the owner was a long time adjutant of a German prince, never figured out the name though.

 

img157.jpg

reverse

 

img158.jpg

Edited by lew

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Hi Lew,

I think it is the Feldschnalle alter Art from:

Hauptmann von Gillhaußen, Ordonnanz Offizier des Fürsten zur Lippe Detmold

 Kind regards

Andreas

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Posted (edited)
 

Hi Lew,

I think it is the Feldschnalle alter Art from:

Hauptmann von Gillhaußen, Ordonnanz Offizier des Fürsten zur Lippe Detmold

 Kind regards

Andreas

Thank you Andreas :thumbup:

Hauptmann Leo von Gillhaußen was killed on the 6th of November 1918.

Here I found a photo of the Gillhaußen brothers from gottmituns.net, Leo and his wife are on the left.

gillbrother.jpg

Edited by lew

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Posted (edited)

Aaaaargh, what a nice ribbonbar....would have been a nice addon to my collection :D

The two Lippe-awards on that bar are:

Lippe-Detmold house-order 4th class type A, awarded on 30th May 1913 as Ordonanz Offizier des Fürsten zu Lippe
and
Schaumburg-Lippe house-order 4th class awarded on 17th January 1912

According to the rolls he received in September 1918 also the Lippe-Detmold house-order 4th class type A with swords, but this might be a mistake in the rolls.
 

Thanks for showing!

Regards
Roman

Edited by Solomon
typo

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The Feldschnalle is:

• Königlich Preußischer Kronenorden, 4.Klasse (21.1.1912)
• Fürstlich Lippischer Hausorden, Ehrenkreuz 4. Klasse, 1. Abteilung (11.6.1913)
• Kaiser Wilhelm-Gedächtnismedaille (22.3.1897)
• Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischer Hausorden, Ritterkreuz 2. Klasse (18.8.1911)
• Fürstlich Schaumburg-Lippischer Hausorden, Ehrenkreuz 4. Klasse (20.2.1912)
• Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischer Greifen-Orden, Ritterkreuz (25.7.1910)
• Königlich Sächsischer Albrechtorden, Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse (27.12.1913) 
• Herzoglich Braunschweigischer Hausorden Heinrich des Löwen, Ritterkreuz 2. Klasse (15.3.1913)

In addition, he also received: 

• Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 
• Johanniterorden, Ehrenritter
• Großherzoglich Hessisches Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen "Für Tapferkeit" (15.2.1915)
• Fürstlich Lippisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz (25.3.1915/28.3.1915)
• Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischer Hausorden, Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse mit Schwertern (17.12.1915)

I assume he also received the EK1, but that would have been after his 1915 Lippe Kriegsverdienstkreuz (LK) receipt, where he listed his awards. Roman also mentioned the swords award of the Lippischer Hausorden.

The difference in dates for the Lippe and Schaumburg-Lippe awards from what Roman provided above are probably the difference between the official award date and the date he actually received them. The dates I have above are those which he provided himself in his receipt for his LK. The dates for that cross which I have above are the award and receipt dates.  His MG3 is dated 11.6.1910 in the Mecklenburg rolls, so that is probably another example of award date vs. receipt date.

Regards,
Dave

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Hi Dave,

I agree...the difference is explained by official award date and signing the receipt...partly it took even a few months.
Do you have the copy of receipt for the LDH4aX as well?
As von Gillhaußen is marked in the rolls with this award, I would like to have a confirmation, that the rolls are correct at this point.
Unfortunately I already saw a few examples with wrong entries for the LDH4aX / LDH4bX in the rolls....no idea why they messed up with the list of these awards between 1917-1918.

Just one example: Kurt Böhmer, Regierungsbauführer in Detmold (picture below) was listed without swords, although he received them....

Foto-Heldentat-Tuerkei_Web-2.jpg

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I did not know there were receipts for the Hausorden. I've only seen the receipts for the LKEK and about one-third of the LK awards. I should be in Detmold again this summer, but I am not sure when.

There seem to have been a number of post-war awards by the former ruling house, many of which were then backdated, usually to 5.11.1918 (one week before the abdication) or 12.11.1918, or some point in between. I have no idea why they messed up the "mit" and "ohne" Schwertern entries.

Another odd example: Hptm. Oskar Karkowski received the LK on 5.11.1918, and his receipt was dated the same day. He is not in the LDH rolls, but in his Wehrmacht personnel file, he has the LDH4aX (also dated 5.11.1918) and the LDHOX (dated 12.11.1918). These appear to have been backdated awards from the former ruling house, but I have no idea when they were actually awarded.

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Hi Dave,

there are receipts for the Hausorden (+ Leopoldorden etc) as well, but only the newer ones.
I don´t know exactly, when Detmold started to record this with the receipts.

Below you see Böhmer´s receipt, belonging to the above shown photo.
He awarded the LDH4bX on 10th November 1918 and returned the receipt on 18th January 1919 (!!!).

Best regards
Roman

Böhmer-Receipt-1 Kopie.jpg

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