My pair of 1870 crosses.

[Farkas]

Hi gents

i wonder if you like either of these?

i have bought these with no expectations

they look like every copy/fake I see! (Munchen 9 = bad!)

I was just hoping the star is an older copy than some! Looks like 3 part construction  but I guess modern copies would be too.?

im now hoping the EK1 is also more interesting than a modern copy but I wasn’t expecting it to be...

The EK1 is though faintly marked/stamped ?35 (835?) above the maker mark. Looks like 2 part construction. And has the ghost of a rectangular stamp to the top rear.

However both are non magnetic crosses (bad? -,keep hearing about magnetic cores)  but the screws are magnetic - also the ‘star’ surround is slightly magnetic but really only a bit....

a fellow gent tells me the EK1 back disc is Russian or Slav so not original...

 

Both came together from a good old collection and I was expecting them to be ‘space fillers’....

All thoughts welcome please Gents....

 

tony

 

Edit : more pics

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Farkas
Drink

[Alex K]

Hi,  I'll make the following comments, clearly they are not originals, and here I would initially start by giving MY definition of a copy and a fake,  others will I'm sure disagree, a copy is an accurate representation of an item without any representation or suggestion that it is an original piece, a fake on the other hand is an item that is made to, or represents itself by deception to be an original article, its made to fool, normally for monetary gain.

In my opinion I would say that your pieces, the Hindenburg stern is a copy, the EK1 however may well be a fake, that in itself is not a problem for you as you clearly realise that they,re not original and paid a price you were happy with

With regards to copies, it all depends on your reason for acquiring a copy, if it's to produce an Iron Cross "Timeline" display then no problem, "You pays your money and you takes your choice" I have no problem with that, there are collectors who will say that in any serious collection, there is no room for copies, fakes, call them what you will, that's their opinion and you have to respect it, even though you may disagree, there comes the situation where a piece is so rare or unique that original will never be available, That happens to be the case with the Hindenburgstern, to my knowledge there were only two known and attributable pieces, both belonged to Paul von Hindenburg, the only recipient. One he gave to a British army major/Colonel he became friendly with in the "Allied Control Commission?", that to the best of my knowledge was and may still be in a private collection in the UK. The other was retained by Hindenburg or his estate, until it disappeared when advancing Soviet forces over-ran and ransacked his estate at Neudeck, in Silesia, (Now deep inside modern Poland, it was completely demolished in the late 1940's I think) its whereabouts are unknown, possibly destroyed or lurking somewhere in the former Soviet Union, who knows.

Copies! as you state there are or were many copies, (and many flooding out of modern china as I write) so it comes down to when copies are made, There seems to be a cut-off date of 1945-ish, anything before that is deemed by many as having some sort of legitimacy, as they were made by "Legitimate" makers for museum display, that's perfectly true, so are collectible, anything after 1945, is fake junk and should be trashed, once again, opinions, in the end you as the collector have to decide where your opinions lie, on a slightly different but related theme, Rudolf Souval Grand Crosses and Knights crosses of the Iron Cross, I have been collecting on and of for 50+ years, in the majority of that time these items have been classed as pure junk and could be obtained for a few GBP's suddenly the "Collecting world" has now decided otherwise, have a look at the prices being asked for this "junk" now, and they are being snapped up!!

 

Cant really say more about the 1870 EK1 as I don't as yet have either a copy of original, but maybe one-day...

 

Finally attached two Hindenburgsterns, the first (Gold background) is in my collection, it is a copy no doubt attributed to Stenhaur and Luck, a current and wartime manufacturer of ODM's to the TR government and current Federal government, when was it made, havnt got a clue, do I like it, I love it! the EK1 on the front is an authentic period piece

the second is not mine, (Borrowed the image from another site, hope the owner doesn't mind), this is attributed to Godet and Sohne, if so it will be pre-1945, value, whatever you are prepared to pay for them I suppose.

 

sorry to have gone on for so long, regards

 

Alex K

Neudeck

[Farkas]

Hi Alex

Ive really enjoyed your thoughts and they were by no means ‘too long’. So thank you for your reply....

i feel the same about copies as you I believe. Each to their own I say. These are (hopefully) the first copies I’ve bought, certainly the first by choice!  I just wanted them. 

I have to admit the ‘extra’ markings on the EK1 got my hopes up for a while but I hadn’t noticed them prior to purchase so they didn’t influence my decision.

thanks again

best wishes

tony

 

ps your pics look great.

I think I might clean mine up...

t

[Alex K]

Hi its no problem, Those that deliberately fake items will often add spurious markings to try and convince the unwary that with these marking it must be genuine, there are many fake 1870 ek1's on the marking with numerous spurious markings, given the cost of genuine ones  it makes it worthwhile for them, research is vital if you don't want to be stung, obviously if you buy a known copy, then its down to how much you want to spend 

 

regards