Austrian Red Cross 1864-1914 & 1923 group

[larsb001]

I got this nice group recently, it contains an Austrian 1923 Red Cross Order (quite rare with only 89 awards) as well as an 1864-1914 Red Cross Order plus an Portugese Red Cross Order. I assume the two Austrian decorations would basically be the same award given in Imperial times and during the Republic. Have anybody seen such a combination before and would it have been normal practise to award both?

 

 

[Trooper_D]

These are two different awards with different founding constitutions and, perhaps, different awarding criteria, are they not, Lars? That being the case, there should be no reason why both shouldn't be worn, I would have thought.

I have a question of my own, if I may? What is the (national?) significance of the pentagon shape of the ribbon? Danish? I ask because I have a 1864-1914 Red Cross Order mounted on a similar ribbon.

[larsb001]

Thanks for your comments, it may be so, I just assumed that the Red Cross organization would political independant, so although they changed the design it would still be a continued award.

And yes, it's a Danish mounting, so if you're having one on a similar ribbon it have most likely been worn by a Dane!

/Lars

[Trooper_D]

18 hours ago, larsb001 said:

I just assumed that the Red Cross organization would political independant, ...

As far as I understand it, this is a state award with no connection to the International Red Cross. I am attaching the section on the award in von Procházka's Österreichisches Ordenshandbuch, which - if you read German - will give you a better understanding.

18 hours ago, larsb001 said:

And yes, it's a Danish mounting, ...

We know that the 1864-1914 Red Cross Order without the krieg dekoration (the laurel wreath) was awarded in return for a subscription (crudely put, the larger the subscription, the higher the award). The award with the krieg dekoration was only given, I understand, for appropriate war service. That being the case, I wonder what a Dane would have done to warrant it? Any thoughts?

[tifes]

I would rather use "Decoration for merits to the Red Cross" instead of "Red Cross Order".  It was established just in August 1914 and  it´s official A-H state decoration indeed. Looking at the ribbon I would say that the owner was Austrian citizen who got A-H WWI decoration then 1st Republic´s decoration and obviously then a foreign Red Cross decoration and hence this is not my field of expertise I am almost 100% positive that´s Portuguese Red Cross award (coat of arms on the front side).

A-H decorations for merits to the Red Cross were bestowed to individuals who contributed somehow to the activates of Red Cross. War Decoration was for service in war which is very wide definition and it might vary from doctor in the field hospital just on the frontline to somebody who provided shelter, supplies, finances (whatever) to hospitals, healing facilities in hinterland. It wasn't necessary to dodge the bullets to get it. Payment of the contributions to the Red Cross activities was awarded by bronze medal and/or silver medal - both without war decoration and/or Honor decoration of 2nd Class, also without war decoration. Higher awards (Officer´s Cross and higher grade) couldn't be "bought" like this and they were awarded only in exchange for some kind of service.        

 

[Trooper_D]

Thank you for your useful clarifications and context, Tifes, particularly your observations on the award of the War Decoration.

[tifes]

you´re welcome Trooper D

[larsb001]

And also a thank you for the info from here, I actually never realized that the lower grades could be "bought". I bought the group at a local auction here, the ribbons are a typical Danish mounting so I'm quite convinced that the recipient was actually a Dane.

A miniature group was present as well 

Regards, Lars

Edited October 31, 2018 by larsb001