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Gentleman's Military Interest Club
dpast32

WISH ADVICE ON NAMED, 'M.B.E.', For 1921 Action in Ireland ?

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 Hello Gentleman,  HELP,  I'm seeking both to assuage my guilt, & also to determine just how bad of a purchase I just made ? Firstly, May I wish everyone here a safe & merry Holiday Season. OK, Now, to my dilemma, if it really is one ?  Yesterday as I was browsing on the Web, I happened across what appeared to be an extremely good deal for an early  British 'M.B.E.' decoration. ( Military Division, 1st type ribbon drape. ) It is named to a Captain in the Border Regiment, & includes some original, & some photocopies of related reference. It appears to have been awarded for a brief action ( an IRA ambush. ) in Ireland on 03 May 1921, in County Mayo. It was listed as an 'Buy It Now', for $199.00 [USD] so I felt like I just had to grab it !! ( I'm into it for $212 PPD ) Now, I feel terrible for spending on myself so close before the Holidays. Soooo, if any of my fellow collector's here would be so kind as to please help me over my guilt, I'd truly appreciate it !  To put it another way, just how bad did I do on this ?? So if you would PLEASE check out the LINK below, & let me know your collective thoughts. 

  PLEASE SEE >>> LINK: 

https://www.ebay.com...EQAAOSwUchaQH9s

       THANK YOU Gentleman !!!

      Best,   Dom  /  dpast32@aol.com

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MBE's like most officers' decorations were issued unnamed so any named example has been privately named. That being said, there is little chance that you will be able to conclusively determine whether it actually belonged to the man whose name is on the reverse.  It is no difference than a Military Cross or DSO with engraved naming, which most collectors are hesitant to buy as there is no way to absolutely tell if the naming is contemporaneous.  The price seems somewhat high as MBEs generally sell for around £130 which is currently about $170.  I personally don't buy privately engraved decorations that are not accompanied by named medals and if I were to do so, I would expect to pay somewhat less than the value of the unnamed medal.

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THANK YOU 'Gunner 1', I appreciate your kind reply. As I haven't collected Commonwealth medals for a few years now, I'm somewhat out of touch with the current prices. With that said, when I saw it for $200 (USD), I just hated to pass on it, due to it relatively well documented. Included with it were documenting paperwork, including a copy of his commissioning dates & respective ranks, along with the L.G. Entry noting his M.B.E., stating; "Appointed to the Order of the British Empire, to be a member of the Military Division, 'in recognition of gallant conduct in the performance of military duties'.  ( L.G. 28/9/21 )  

And, in addition to the above 'verification', included also are several articles documenting the IR A ambush of ,03 MAy 1921 in County Mayo, Ireland. Apparently, this action became referred to as the 'Tourmakeady Affair'. And yes, I do realize that it's not officially named , although more than a few examples have been observed as such. Well, I took a gamble on this one, as I found it's history a bit too interesting to pass up. Honestly though, do a great many examples turn up which can be attributed to the immediate post-WW1 era of 'the troubles' ? I still have a few Commonwealth medals & groups that I just couldn't part with, well, at least not yet. So I guess I'll have to file this one away for a while ? I was hoping that it was worth a bit more than I'm into it for, but I guess it is what it is ! Any other opinions out there ? THANKS Guys, & Happy Holidays to all.

        Best,   dpast32

 

 

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It looks like it could be a cast copy, I have never seen an M.B.E. in condition like that, all the 'pitting' has revealed some sort of base metal underneath the silver? It should be solid .925 silver so there should be nothing to see underneath but more silver.
Also the ribbon is modern and nylon, with an unrelated box, which is a civil box and should be a military issue box.

Unfortunately anyone could have done the engraving at any time and without any original documentation or provenance it is hard to confirm, he is certainly missing his 1914 Star trio for his WW1 service which was issued to him in 1922.

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  THANKS so much Liverpool, I truly appreciate any input. Well, like I said initially, I took a gamble & apparently it may been a bad one. I'm only into it for about $200 USD, so I'm not into it for a fortune. I've always had a deep fondness for U.K. related medals, as they were my first foray into medal collecting, many years ago. I'm at the point where I'm going to contact the seller to hear what he has to say about this group ? He may play the "I don't know anything, it's the way I got it" routine. But  it can't hurt to try, right ? My initial impression was that it way a really nice & interesting award, & honestly, I guess I should have known better !  There is some paperwork that is included with it, & 1 piece appears to be from a U.K. based medals dealer, listing the recipient's military service record. I can't make out where, or from whom the paperbacks from, as the logo has been 'cut off' in the photograph. When I contact the seller I'll ask him. I guess we've all been too hasty a times, & I guess I was on this one. THANKS again Guys for your very kind replies, & PLEASE let me know if anyone thinks of anything else.

     OH, as a P.S.: Abbott & Tamplin note only 1 M.B.E. ( Mil. Div.) was awarded on 09 September 1921, which is the exact L.G. Entry DATE for this M.B.E.

       Best regards,   Dom Pastore Jr.   /  dpast32@aol.com

 

 

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dpast32 wrote: "in addition to the above 'verification', included also are several articles documenting the IR A ambush:

I don't like to make disparaging comments about other collectors groups but all the paperwork you mention in your earlier post appears to be photocopied research or research that describes an action, neither of which is generally considered "Verification" that the group is actually the one that the recipient received.  Original documents related to the medal group may help with verifying a medal group but even with original documents there is no guarantee that the medals are actually those awarded to the recipient unless the group contains properly-named medals

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