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Posted (edited)

Dear fellow collectors,

I have a question regarding the red eagle order 3rd class, this award is sometimes accompenied by a schleife. What exactly is the reason for this schleife? Some collectors tell me it was given only to prussians who received a RAO 3rd class after previously receiving a 4th class, whilst others say that recipients were eligible after having the 3rd class for 10 years. The german site https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/ which is used by many collectors as reference states that all recipients after ten years are eligible for a schleife (Ritter die bereits 10 Jahre im Besitz der 3. Klasse waren konnten ebenfalls die Schleife erhalten), even those who hadn't previously received a 4th class.

Kind regards, and thanks in advance, Laurentius

Edited by laurentius

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I think for the military awards, it was typically conferred as an 'Abschieds-Abzeichen', on retirement.

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Generally speaking the bow (Schleife) is the insignia of the second award (3rd class) of the red eagle order to an individual already holding the 4th class. Depending on whether the original award was with or without swords and whether the second award was a peacetime or wartime award would result in various permutations as follows: 1st and 2nd awards respectively

RAO4 (peacetime) on statute ribbon   RAO3S (peacetime) statute ribbon and bow

RAO4 (peacetime) on statute ribbon   RAO3SX (wartime) black/white ribbon and bow with swords

RAO4X (wartime) black/white ribbon  RAO3SXR (peacetime) statute ribbon and bow with swords on the ring

RAO4X (wartime) black/white ribbon  RAO3SX (wartime) 2 black/3 white ribbon and bow

Typically the award of the 3rd class with bow was for officers holding the rank of Oberst and Oberstleutnant. Below is an extract from the Militär-Wochenblatt of 23 January 1878 listing the award of the RAO3S to colonels who are for the most part regimental commanders.

Regards

Glenn

 

 

RAO3S.jpg

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Dear Glenn J and VtwinVince

Thanks for the help, the Militär-Wochenblatt is a lovely piece of extra info

Kind regards, Laurentius

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It is correct too, that the bow (on 3rd class) and the oak leaves (on 2nd, 1st class and grand cross) was given only to Prussian individuals.

REgards, Komtur.

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Thanks Glenn, that really helps explain it well. It’s hard for me to keep the ribbons correct when one class is with and the other is without Swords.

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5 hours ago, Komtur said:

It is correct too, that the bow (on 3rd class) and the oak leaves (on 2nd, 1st class and grand cross) was given only to Prussian individuals.

REgards, Komtur.

Morning Komtur,

that is certainly the impression I have. See below an extract from the Royal Prussian "Ordensliste" of 1905. From this sample it can be seen that with the exception of the four non-Prussian individuals, all other awards were with the bow (m. Schl.) However, it would seem that non Prussian citizens in Reich service (Kaisermarine for example) would receive the bow/oak leaves to subsequent awards. See Admiral Hipper for instance (Bavarian).

Regards

Glenn

 

RAO3S_2.jpg

hipper va.jpg

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11 hours ago, Glenn J said:

... However, it would seem that non Prussian citizens in Reich service (Kaisermarine for example) would receive the bow/oak leaves to subsequent awards. See Admiral Hipper for instance (Bavarian) ...

That is true and was official handling for civil service from the mid 1870ies. This was transferred for personnel in military service in exactly 1904.

 

Regards, Komtur.

Lehmann Titel.jpg

Lehmann S. 125.jpg

Lehmann S. 126.jpg

Bertram, Konteradmiral Wilhelm.JPG

Bertram Urkunde RAO mit Schleife.JPG

Bertram Schnalle.JPG

Bertram Miniaturkettchen.JPG

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Fun to read and fun to watch!

GreyC

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11 hours ago, Komtur said:

That is true and was official handling for civil service from the mid 1870ies. This was transferred for personnel in military service in exactly 1904.

 

Hi Komtur,

Excellent and thank you for the book tip!

Regards

Glenn

 

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