RichieC Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Flag1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieC Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 (edited) NavalFlag1 Edited March 16, 2007 by RichieC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 (edited) The 163rd flag is pretty impressive! It's interesting that it has been repaired. It appears to have been in the sunlight for many years which destroyed the silk of the flag. I've had a good number of these through my hands over the years. I could easily collect them, but unfortunately that's more of a "rich man's hobby" than even order and medal collecting!DaveDear Dave,you are right, these very special flags are for a very "special" (and rich) community .The prices are so high, because the items are completly illegal and criminal - a regimental, divisional, etc. flag can never be private property and being sold . It will always stay property of the state.Complete flags are extraordinary rare, because the Yeltsin-Mafia broke the sets up and sold the flag and the attached orders separatly.In our documented case of of the "163rd Romnensko-Kievskaja, Order of Lenin, Red Banner, Order of Suvorov (2cl) Infantry Division" the full set should consist of:- the flag (as shown)- the flags pole & metal top- the protecting hood of the flag- the mentioned 3 orders attached on a sleeve which hangs down from the top of the flag's pole- the 3 (large documents) of the 3 orders- the 2 (large documents) of the 2 honorary titlesThe flag shown belonged to one of the top fighting units - 2 honorary names & 3 top orders - of the Red Army in the GPW. I don't want to guess it's market value .It was not possible for the Yeltsin-Gang to sell this flag :Best regards Christian Edited March 17, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Hi Sergey,Many thanks for the help on these and for the translation. And don't worry... your English is actually very good. Just keep working on it... the more you use it the better it gets. But trust me... alot of native speakers don't do as well as you. That last one you posted sure is a beaut, but if Christian is correct then someone will probably end up being in deep trouble over it. Thanks! Dan Thanks for good words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Gentlemen,the last flag of the 163rd division is obviously stolen from the museum .The new "owner" might get difficulties with the embassy, authorities and Interpol .Just my few cents ...Best regards ChristianAt Russian military forum where the seller has put this flag for 2000 US D there were many questions. Spoke that the banner is stolen from a museum. However the seller proved legality of the sale. My opinion that such sale and purchase is immoral. Certainly if this flag not a copy. It is very a pity but the world correct money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 At Russian military forum where the seller has put this flag for 2000 US D there were many questions. Spoke that the banner is stolen from a museum. However the seller proved legality of the sale. My opinion that such sale and purchase is immoral. Certainly if this flag not a copy. It is very a pity but the world correct moneyFor $2000, that seems to be about the right price for the condition, though it would be tough to resell later. For all those questioning the immorality of buying or selling a unit flag: What's the difference between buying and selling a flag and buying and selling a unit award or document? If the unit no longer exists, there is no owner for it, and despite everyone's thoughts of the historical value, many of these unit items were kept in museums in the area where the unit was formed, many of those being far from Russia/Ukraine and after the end of communism, the people in these republics were GLAD to get rid of these "old vestiges" of communism. Although it would be nice for the Russian government to preserve everything historic, it's an impossibility for them to do so. I believe it is better for some of these flags and other unit items to end up in the collection of someone who appreciates them and their historic value than any other option out there. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimZ Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 For $2000, that seems to be about the right price for the condition, though it would be tough to resell later. For all those questioning the immorality of buying or selling a unit flag: What's the difference between buying and selling a flag and buying and selling a unit award or document? If the unit no longer exists, there is no owner for it, and despite everyone's thoughts of the historical value, many of these unit items were kept in museums in the area where the unit was formed, many of those being far from Russia/Ukraine and after the end of communism, the people in these republics were GLAD to get rid of these "old vestiges" of communism. Although it would be nice for the Russian government to preserve everything historic, it's an impossibility for them to do so. I believe it is better for some of these flags and other unit items to end up in the collection of someone who appreciates them and their historic value than any other option out there. DaveThe same can well be said about orders and medals awarded to individuals! A unit was after all made up of men and one can therefore go on to challenge the morality of selling an individual's orders as well as a unit's!! It is immoral to sell stolen items.... that we all agree with! But as long as onwership is legal (orders, flags, whatever!!) then I see no problem with buying and selling such items! If the Russians prevent the sale of everything military, then we'd better start getting ready to give up collecting all together!Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 For $2000, that seems to be about the right price for the condition, though it would be tough to resell later. For all those questioning the immorality of buying or selling a unit flag: What's the difference between buying and selling a flag and buying and selling a unit award or document? If the unit no longer exists, there is no owner for it, and despite everyone's thoughts of the historical value, many of these unit items were kept in museums in the area where the unit was formed, many of those being far from Russia/Ukraine and after the end of communism, the people in these republics were GLAD to get rid of these "old vestiges" of communism. Although it would be nice for the Russian government to preserve everything historic, it's an impossibility for them to do so. I believe it is better for some of these flags and other unit items to end up in the collection of someone who appreciates them and their historic value than any other option out there. DaveDear Dave,you gave excellent arguements .Maybe the local museum gave this special flag away, because of it's (very) poor condition ? But I don't believe in a somehow "legal" transfer, because all the orders + all documents are missing. They sold the orders separatly, burnt the documents and sold the flag - maybe restored it before. Typical case of the "glorious" and "cheap" times of the 1990s .Following Dave's arguements, the 150th Infantry Division is also not existing anymore. So, Gentlemen, guess what the market price of the flag (incl. Order of Kutuzov 2cl + all documents) would be ? The condition of the flag is excellent, as you can see on the 3 photographs I posted.Some military museums in the west might be very interested to get some unit flags from Russian museums, I assume.Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 The Lord ,probably you living in the states with the issued political-economic system existing many decades cannot understand an event in former republics USSR .On 100 years vary politically-economic system three times. Change of a formation accompanies bloody time of numerous wars and Stalin cleaning. As a result to authority people thinking only about the pocket come .I do not love communistic ideology. However during Soviet time there was an order. Bad business tried to hide. Now the law of-money Therefore now probably such sale of a banner .I think well that yet do not sell the Kremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 The Lord ,probably you living in the states with the issued political-economic system existing many decades cannot understand an event in former republics USSR .On 100 years vary politically-economic system three times. Change of a formation accompanies bloody time of numerous wars and Stalin cleaning. As a result to authority people thinking only about the pocket come .I do not love communistic ideology. However during Soviet time there was an order. Bad business tried to hide. Now the law of-money Therefore now probably such sale of a banner .I think well that yet do not sell the Kremlin I know this going slightly if property is burnt down the owner loses the right to the land ands sombody one tried this on one of the governent buildings near Kermlin luckaly fire crews got there in time and building was saved, but just goes show nothing is sacred Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I found another picture in my files of that flag of the 150th Order of Kutuzov 2nd Class Idritsk Rifle Division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I know this going slightly if property is burnt down the owner loses the right to the land ands sombody one tried this on one of the governent buildings near Kermlin luckaly fire crews got there in time and building was saved, but just goes show nothing is sacred Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Interesting theme. We shall add lives. Military division whith a honourable banner Orol city Regional committee VLCSM . Twer air station 1947 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauptmann Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) Hi all,Here's my latest edition... a copy yes, but of an item no one will ever be able to buy. I think it will make a great piece for my overall Soviet display when and if I ever get my bunker display area done.Photos courtesy of Michael Bessler.Dan Edited August 14, 2007 by Hauptman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieC Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Exactly Dan... A perfectly acceptable alternative for a display backdrop due the reason that you have mentioned... Nice in any case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauptmann Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) Exactly Dan... A perfectly acceptable alternative for a display backdrop due the reason that you have mentioned... Nice in any case...Hi Richie,Many thanks! It was a good price and I just couldn't resist. I can't spend much right now as I had to buy a new laptop for work but just couldn't pass this one up. The seller had had several made up and this was his last to sell. I lucked out when no one else bid and couldn't be happier. Can't wait till it gets here this week.Dan Edited August 14, 2007 by Hauptman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Hi all,Here's my latest edition... a copy yes, but of an item no one will ever be able to buy. I think it will make a great piece for my overall Soviet display when and if I ever get my bunker display area done.Dan Yes simply there are no words. It is good to look this thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauptmann Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Hi all,My latest... a small banner from Paul Schmitt. Pics are his and used with his permission. Many thanks Paul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauptmann Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 (edited) I love the Order of the Red Banner on this one... just had to have it. Would be most grateful for a translation and any further info on this one. Dan Edited November 28, 2007 by Hauptman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 70 years of the basis of Far East military district. I think it the end of the eightieth years. The flag awarded small military formations.For high military skill is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 One more flag. Correctly to tell a small tag. Small because it is a flag for the smallest communists ( ОКТЯБРЯТ) age of 7-9 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Is it supposed to be Lenin in the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Yes, it is the young 'Lenin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 This portrait is made from a photohttp://www.marx.org/archive/lenin/photo/family/012.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks for the picture Сергей! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now