Kaiserleiche Marine Uniform question for Rick?

[Mike Huxley]

Rick, help please .... I obtained this photo a few days ago and something puzzles me with it ???

On this Matrosen's left sleeve he wears the chevron of a Eigj-Freiwilliger .... But in seems to be reverted ??? with another badge place underneath it ( which I can't make out ). I've never seen the chevron this way round before.

Any idea's???

Edited May 3, 2006 by Mike Huxley

[Guest Rick Research]

That's a weirdie-- I've never seen one any way but point down:

[attachmentid=37710]

Maybe it's because he is already what MAY be a technical officer candidate Petty Officer, and with THAT rating on the upper sleeve, the chevron's bumped????

[attachmentid=37717]

Can you zoom in on JUST the insignia and make a nice clear scan of those, only?

It looks to me like he has some branch's -aspirant's Petty officer rating, anchor with SOME specialty, in the Candidates' border like these for a Marineingenieur- applikant, -aspirant, and -oberaspirant:

[attachmentid=37719]

but then these are the ratings for REGULAR cadets. No one would have reached the PettyOfficer versions WHILE a One Year Volunteer-- so perhaps that inverted chevron indicates that the man is a RESERVE or SEEWEHR cadet???

A name and date on back would clear this up, from Rank Lists if he WAS an officer candidate.

[Chip]

Rick,

Is that your insignia? Nice pieces. I collect imperial navy insignia myself and I don't recall seeing the chevron inverted in this way before.

Chip

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup. I thought we had an Imperial navy insignia thread-- I certainly remember posting cap insignia and officers' shoulder boards and cuff crowns--

but couldn't find the enlisted stuff. So here's the backs of those:

[attachmentid=37799]

I've never understood why WW2 Kriegsmarine Petty Officer patches you almost cannot GIVE away and yet the German dealers want three figures for Imperial sleeve rates--

which nobody (except thee and me? ) are apparently even interested in. (I certainly do not see items SELLING after years and years and... years on offer.) That's MY entire collection of these, due to unreasonable prices.

[Chip]

Rick,

About ten years or more ago, someone found a large cache of these aspirant insignia. All of them were from the Maschinist specialty. I have one of them and kick myself for not getting the other two that you have when I had the chance. Here's a scan of three favorite rates from my collection.

Chip

Edited May 5, 2006 by Chip

[Mike Huxley]

Can you zoom in on JUST the insignia and make a nice clear scan of those, only?

Rick, as you say "it's a weirdie" and unfortunatly I can't get a better scan of it. Even under a loupe it's impossible to see what that badge under the chevron is.

Those are very nice Marineingenieur insignia you have there. At the moment I'm trying to build up a collection of as many navy insignia as I can, but as you say Ahhhhhh ..... the price

There does seem to be a lack of information on the Kaiserleiche Marine which makes it even harder to find out even basic things about the service. Maybe a forum on here dedicated to the service would help?????

Chip, nice set of badges as well .... let's see some more if you have them please

[Chip]

Mike,

I started collecting these thirty years ago, when nobody wanted them. Put together a nice collection, then the prices went loco and I stopped. There is information out there, though it takes a lot of sources to put together a list of the possible rates that existed. I would still have a long way to go to get them all, as there were changes over the years and various levels in each specialty. It's an interesting field, but like many other things, about dried up. Here are a few more.

Chip

Edited May 5, 2006 by Chip

[Mike Huxley]

Again, nice badges Chip, I have a couple in my collection, the same as your last two. A slow process of collecting these now. I recently obtained a complete uniform for a Maschinistmatte that has the unit printing on the inside of the jacket and the trousers. I can make it out to be issued at Willemshaven.... but the unit I'm not sure about. Any ideas on it?

Here's a pic of the markings and the complete jacket.

[Guest Rick Research]

I live in hope of finding Imperial "Maat" ratings without the crown... mistaken for the $5 nobody wants them Kriegsmarine ones.

(No, not yet and am not holding my breath either! )

I'd say the issue markings are

B ekleidungs A mt W ilhelmshaven

II. T orpedo Division 7 . Kompagnie

[Chip]

Mike,

I don't have much in the way of dress apparel. My original goal was to build a Matrosen Regiment outfit. Back in the 1980s I was lucky enough to get a set of the M02 naval landing forces gear. This included a red/brown navy rucksack, a black leather cartridge bandolier, four single cartridge pouches, mess kit, belt and buckle, canvas and leather gaiters and entrenching shovel with carrier. Over the following years I have added mostly naval fatigue clothing. The only thing that I am still looking for is an issue Collani (?berzieher). OK, maybe a gray cotton canvas cap too.

Hey Rick,

Keep the faith, it happens. Here are a few of those Maat patches.

Chip

[Guest Rick Research]

Imperial yellow on blue insignia are a pain because of the spectrum issues which makes yellow so dark they come out all but invisible in photos!

Here is Marine-Zahlmeister-Oberapplikant (1910-11) August B?ning:

[attachmentid=38161]

on his upper left sleeve-- the rope border around a large asterisk "rosette" which looks like a flaw "blotch" on the photo!!!!

And yet here he is 1912-14 as a Marine-Zahlmeister-Oberapplikant

[attachmentid=38162]

and that rank is as clear as day! maybe in metal, or bullion? (He was quite a fashion plate.)

[Chip]

Rick,

Nice photos. I'm not sure if I have ever seen that "asterisk" insignia. Speaking of insignia, do you have a complete list of the possible Laufbahn patches? I have often wondered if my references were complete.

Another thing that I am unclear about is what the regulations were as to when the metal insignia were worn as opposed to the cloth embroidered patches.

Chip

[Mike Huxley]

Chip, The "Maat"badge on my jacket is the raised metal type (needs a little cleaning I think). My understanding is that the metal badges were worn on the dress uniform and the cloth on regular use uniforms? but I may be wrong. I'll look forward to a seeing the completed Matrosen Regiment outfit

I picked up a beautiful Deck Officers cap badge today, for a snip, at a local military fair. I'll take pics tomorrow and post it here.

Rick, thanks for the info on my jacket. I had a feeling that it was for the Torpedo Division

I would like to find out more about the differences between the two main divisions of Matrosen and Werft? Any help on this would be gratefully received.