Some Canadian and other British Empire Cap Badges

[Avitas]

...back of the 7th Hussars.

[Avitas]

Another of yesterday's acquisitions, a Royal Canadian Army Pay Corps badge. Not exactly a front line combat unit, but tell that to thousands of soldiers wanting their paycheck on time! This one is marked "W. Scully" from Montreal and is one of the extremely few Canadian badges that are marked I have seen.

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

...reverse of RCAPC cap badge with the rare "W.Scully" marking on the beaver. I am not sure how rare these marked ones are but they are definitely a big monority. Any more info is great and all comments are appreciated.

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

The next two from my Vernon antique show pick-ups are kind of mysteries as I am not positive of the ID's on them. I checked my regular reference pages but these weren't on them. I think this first on is just a standard Infantry collar badge, but I am not sure. Any help on identifying this one is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

And the sixth and final cap badge I bought in Vernon, BC at the fall antique show is a complete unknown to me. I could not find it either on the reference site (canadiansoldiers.com) and if anyone has any info on it please share it as this is an interesting cap badge. It could be related to an American unit or even a Soviet one I guess, I am totally in the dark on this one Any help out there?

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

..back of unknown cap badge. Any ideas on the last two cap badges?

Cheers and thanks for any help,

Pat

[Pylon1357]

The next two from my Vernon antique show pick-ups are kind of mysteries as I am not positive of the ID's on them. I checked my regular reference pages but these weren't on them. I think this first on is just a standard Infantry collar badge, but I am not sure. Any help on identifying this one is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Pat

This one is a Gerneral Service Badge, not certain if its a Cap or Collar badge, collar I think...Sorry too lazy to dig through my badges and find my set. It appears to be WWI era. In WWII therer ws an 'Infantry Corps' Badge. look at the left lower corner of the reverse you will see the MM 'RODEN'. There may also be a year date there as well.

[Pylon1357]

And the sixth and final cap badge I bought in Vernon, BC at the fall antique show is a complete unknown to me. I could not find it either on the reference site (canadiansoldiers.com) and if anyone has any info on it please share it as this is an interesting cap badge. It could be related to an American unit or even a Soviet one I guess, I am totally in the dark on this one Any help out there?

Cheers,

Pat

This badge is for Le Regiment De Montmagny. Sorry but again I have not spent the time to look up any info on this Regiment. The badge is WWII era. This unit as far as I know was a Reserve unit during the war.

Very nice to see some Canadian Badges here. Its what I love and collect. I won't waste the bandwidth here posting my collection pf Canadian Badges but here is the link (Please don't hang me for linking to another site)

WWII Badges and Insignia http://www.militariacollecting.com/index.php?showtopic=22246

60's to modern http://www.militariacollecting.com/index.php?showtopic=22874

Edited October 22, 2006 by Pylon1357

[Laurence Strong]

Some of us are persona non gratis on that forum

[TerryB]

Avitos: The grenades on the second page are collar dogs for the artillery. They have seven points to the flame. The engineer grenades have nine flames.

The Wentworth Regt is known as the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry. Their officers pattern is slightly different from the one you have, with the title "Royal Hamilton Light Infantry" on a scoll. The regiment was at Dieppe.

TerryB

Edited October 29, 2006 by TerryB

[Laurence Strong]

The grenades on the second page are collar dogs for the artillery. They have seven points to the flame. The engineer grenades have nine flames.

TerryB

Hi Terry

Thanks for that, I always wondered what the difference was.

[Avitas]

Great information guys, keep it coming! It is good to know that the Wentworth Regiment was The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry and that they were at Dieppe, a mission every Canadian knows about and remembers. I am definitely addicted to the ww2 Canadian cap badges (have a couple ww1's, but I would like to collect the entire set) as they are all so unique to different areas of Canada and in their designs. I will be sure to post some more as I find them (they are quite plentiful here in the Okanagan valley). All comments are welcome on any of the badges posted in the thread and thanks again for the info.

Cheers,

Pat

[peter monahan]

Yes, the copper maple leaf was the standard issue for Canadian troops who weren't wearing a numbered CEF badge in WWI. Also worn as a collar dog by almost all CEF troops, I think.

The British made badge is interesting. Many years ago I was priviliged to know a retired RSM of the 48th Highlanders. He'd been General Crerar's driver bodyguard (as a 17 yr old corporal), served in N. Africa and served on with the militia into the '70's. His son was a peacekeeper for 20 years and Bill - Wiliam Elms - wrote a history of the 48th.

I remember Bill talking about an advance party of Cdns. going to Aldershot - I think in '40, not '14 but can't swear to it - and immediately contacting a local company to make badges for the hordes they expected to follow. Some were made and used but were always "unofficial", though Bill says better quality than the issue ones! He actually got some for other units and even a die or two later in "his" war from the company, because the practice was quashed by the Cdn. authorities as soon as they found out. "Can't have the men exercising initiative" (or looking better on parade than the officers)!

William Scully made huge amounts of stuff for the Canadian Army in WWI and was still in business at least into the '50's but I suspect by WWII was too small to supply much stuff - began as a jewellers, I think.

Great stuff, Pat!

[Avitas]

Hi All,

Just a quick update on a few of the newer ww2 era Canadian cap badges I have picked up recently (sorry-no pics yet- my situation is still in limbo with posting pics). I am extremely happy to have found a Canadian Black Watch badge (Royal Highland Reg. of Canada) in really good shape and a nice Royal Irish Regiment as well. I also found a nice BC Dragoons 3 piece collar/cap badge set, an Ontario Regiment collar badge, a Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps cap badge in mint shape, a Royal Canadian Army Cadets Corps badge (in regular cupal metal, not plastic, is this ok?), a Royal Canadian Dragoons cap badge, and a Canadian Women's Army Corps cap badge.

The old collection of Canadian ww2 cap badges is filling out and now being aided by a very handy reference book called "Insignes Canadiens- Canadian Badges 1920-1950" by Daniel Mazeas, and it is long out of print. It has very precise, life-like size sketches of pretty much every Canadian Cap and Collar badge from 20's to 50's and has been very helpful for anyone needing a good reference book on Canadian cap badges. If anyone has an unknown badge they would like me to look for in my book please feel free to post it on this thread (as long as it is Canadian of course!).

Cheers,

Pat

[Pylon1357]

Pat, that is a great reference book, so much so, that mine has falled apart. Just be forwarned, there are a couple mistakes, as there are with any reference book. This being said, it is the Best IMHO.

One error that comes to mind is in regards to the Calgary Tank Regiment. The book does not show collar badges with the cap badge, however they are shown in the post WWII Kings Own Calgary Tank badges. A couple other errors like that but can not recall them at the moment.

You are correct about the detailed drawings, in case you are not aware of this...the drawings are the correct size and proportion for each badge.

[leigh kitchen]

Here is an unknown badge which I believe is a Commonwealth cap badge as it is made with similar characteristics (copper stamped, same pin set-up). Unfortunately, there are no markings at all, only lightning bolts and a Roman style helmet in the center. Any ideas on this unique cap badge?

Pat

Post war Dutch engineers I believe.

[ChrisB]

Any other New Zealand cap badges out there?

Pat

Yes.

A few of my favourites. Don?t want to hijack this thread but I do have a few more if anyone would be interested in seeing them. Will have a practice with the scanner and try and get a better scan if ya want to see some more.

These one?s are:

1) Cap badge 4th (Waikato) Mounted Rifles

2) ? ? 12th (Otago) Mounted Rifes

3)Cap or Collar badge 11th (North Auckland) Mounted Rifles

4) Cab badge with Engineers collar badges NZ Railway Battalion

5 Top) Cap or Collar badge 11th (Taranaki Rifles) Regiment

5 Bottom) Cap or Collar badge IV Battalion Wellington Regiment

6) Cap badge 10th (North Otago Rifles) Regiment

7) Cap and Collar badges 3rd (Auckland) Regiment (Countess of Ranfulys Own)

8) Cap badge 16th (Waikato) Regiment

9) Cap badge 15th (North Auckland) Regiment

10) Cap Badge 12th (Nelson) Regiment

Cheers

Chris

[leigh kitchen]

The grenade collar dogs - the one on the left is a Canadian officers insignia, the one on the right the standard & very common British RA Other Ranks insignia, also worn as a side cap badge during WWII.

The sporran badge seems too big to be a cantle badge, & does'nt appear to be military - as has been suggested, a "marchng band" insignia & probably not British.

The star & maple leaf wreath badge - the mullet was an insignia of the Cameronians, perhaps a Canadian unit with links to the Cameronians?

[Avitas]

Nice set of New Zealand badges Chris! They don't come around too often here in Canada, the one I posted is the only one I have seen in all my travels to antique stores and shows here in BC. Picked up an RAAF cap badge recently though, as Aussie badges are pretty rare up here too. I was talking to a dealer in downtown Vancouver and he mentioned that the NZ, Aussie, and Canadian cap badges are gaining more of a premium now as they are a bit harder to find for the world market. Anyone else notice this trend?

ANd thanks Leigh for the information on the Reg de Montagny (star and maple leafs) badge, and it may have a connection as it is a French Canadian regiment and they have ties I believe.

Finally to Pylon, I did notice that the drawings were all size accurate in the cap badges book which is very handy, and my copy is falling apart as well, I had to tape it together!

I have a backlog of newly acquired Canadian cap badges to show once I get my system upgraded (who knows when! Dang money issues!) so hopefully that will be soon. Maybe Chris should start a thread on New Zealand badges?

THanks for the help and comments,

Pat

[leigh kitchen]

I like the designs of many of the "colonial" insignia - the combination of old world crowns etc with new world local motifs - native flowers, animals, representations of local people and the like.

Canadian, Australian, NZ badges turn up in Britain but I don't know how avidly they are collected - I only have a few, including my fathers Canadian Argyll & Sutherlands badge (Kings Crown, issued in the late 1950's).

The presence of flat brass sheet fixing lugs on the back of what appear to be British cap badges still confuse British collectors, but the assumption generally seems to be that they are Canadian badges worn by units whose badge design was the same as a British units - eg British Seaforth Highlanders / Canadian Pictou Highlanders.

The Otago Regiment badge always reminds me of Jungers description in "Storm of Steel" of the gigantic "English officer" who fought gallantly until killed.

[Avitas]

I have a few updates for this thread now that I have a computer that can keep up with the site!

Here is a nice ww2 Irish Regt. of Canada badge.

Pat

[Avitas]

next one, an Ontario Regiment cap badge (again, all of these I will be posting are wartime/King's crown era badges.)

Pat

[Avitas]

Here is a really nice one, the Royal Highland Regt of Canada, the "Black Watch". Any comments on any of these badges are welcome!

Pat

[Avitas]

and another highlander badge, the Gordon Highlanders, like this one myself.

[Avitas]

and a Royal Canadian Army Cadets wartime badge in excellent shape!