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Mike K

Baltenkreuz / Where are all the Baltic Crosses?

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The only thing I can add to this discussion is that his creations are increasingly hitting the market and include such other pieces as: the Bug Stern, The Avalov Cross (unit badge) and/or the von Randow 1st class (they are very similar), and the von Lowenfeld Cross 1st class among others.

The German dealer known by many simply as "The Club" is one of the major sellers of his wares.

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hi bolewts58,

i'm a bit reluctant to lump this one in with the wares that "the club" peddles. his copies of the awards you mention are of good quality (if one can dare call them that), but the quality of this one is very, very good

Edited by Eric Stahlhut

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hi d,

thanks very much for taking the time and effort to provide an image of some of the reproductions this russian fellow is known for. i can see that he has two different styles of baltic cross 1st class displayed, but based on the above image it is difficult to establish an undeniable match to the cross depicted in this thread.

thanks again, and happy collecting!

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I think both the Iron Cross and the Baltic Cross military awards have their roots in the BLACK CROSS of the Teutonic Order, am I right? There is a Teutonic shield, in a Polish museum, from the battle of 1410 with a Maltese cross just like the Iron Cross design.

I also believe that the Teutonic Order (now not a military order but just a religious one), still uses the same design as the cross named Baltic Cross here. But with a golden shield and eagle in the center. BALTIC!!! of course the T.O. was there for so long. Sorry for my English, and I think you already know all I wrote. Now my question. The Baltic Cross was a German award or not? Was it like the baltic version or equivalent of the Iron Cross? (if it was not German).

BEAUTIFUL CROSSES BY THE WAY. I wish I could have one of those Baltic Crosses.

Edgar

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QUOTE(Stan @ Jul 13 2006, 23:28 )

Here's pictires of my Baltic Cross. I bought it in 1969 for ?2.50. Never knew what the were awarded for. Can someone enlighten me?

Hi Stan,

The cross was awarded to volunteers in the Baltische Landwehr with a minimum of 3 months service. They campaigned in the Baltic region against the Bolshevics. There was apparently no official first or second class - the award was meant to be hung from a ribbon but pinback versions became common. There were 21,839 official awards, but many more would have been produced. Like the Schelsien Adler, the Baltic Cross was officially sanctioned for wear after 1935. Most of this basic info can be found in Angolia's For F&F, Vol 1.

Your cross looks like the same type as my lower right example - yours is in better condition and cost a bit less (at least at face value) than mine did!

Regards

Mike

Now, it is getting sense for me. "Sanctioned for wear after 1935", could it have been because Hitler was against the Teutonic Order and he even abolished it? I mean the Baltic Cross is totally a Teutonic Order emblem as is the German Cross (Without the swastika and instead a maltese black cross).

I am not to much into the military awards, but I like to read the history of the military orders (Templars, Hospitalers, Santiago and of course Teutonic).

Thanks for the information and nice pictures, and please if someone knows where I can get a Baltic Cross tell me.

Edgar

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Yes indeed! Thats why I like this Medal Bar.

It tells a life story. To young for WW1, but old enough for service in the Freikorps. Then he joined the Police and as a Policeman he seems to be that he was on duty during the Olympic games in 1936 in Berlin. In the late 1930ies a lot of police units were transfered to the Wehrmacht. So then he became a member of ther Army.

The Ribbon Bar shows a lot of Freikorps awards.

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Wow! I love Elbavaro's bar! Freikorps as a teenager, then Reichsheer, then Landespolezei in Prussia/Berlin then recalled as a stout 40 something reservist in 1939, probably to train recruits........or maybe do "special tasks" and keep " order" , which merited only a KVKx in Poland and Russia. I hope he ended up as a traffic cop in Paris from 1940-44 though.

Edited by Ulsterman

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Here is my contribution to this thread.

Selection of ribbon bars with the Baltic Cross medal.

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Impressive collection Alan. You have some gems there. congrats

Christophe

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I especially like the double bars where the man moved the Austrian bravery award from 2 to 3.

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I especially like the double bars where the man moved the Austrian bravery award from 2 to 3.

Yes I like those ones too. It's interesting to see how they switched, swapped and upgraded.

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A recent "catch", an elderly Gefreiter (Friedrich Lindenberg of the Mörscherabteilung), wearing the Baltenkreuz with an unidentified dark colored Johaniter Cross and an interesting field ribbon bar.

Can any one identify the cross pinned next to the Baltenkreuz; could this be the Awaloff-Kreuz or the Deutschritter-Kreuz von Randow?

Edited by Odulf

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What a VERY naughty Gefreiter! All the "other" Freikorps awards wre banned in 1933/34!!!! That is "Detachment von Randow," at 3,000 men one of the largest. Meybauer made the multiple classes of the badge.

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Thanks for your confirmation Rick.

Indeed a resistant but experienced Gefreiter with an interesting record:

EK2 (1914), Hindenburg Cross, Baltic Cross 1st & 2nd Class, Bulgarian & Hungarian War Commemorative Medals with Swords, Randow Detachment Cross 1st Class, Wounded Badge in Black.

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Hi Eric,

That's a fake made in Russia, we discussed it on WAF recently http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589555

Hi Eric,

Not that much to add to WAF thread, actually. The guy is an artist, producing all kind of decoration copies (including fantasy pieces, or reconstructions of some mysterious/never seen ones). He's selling them as copies as well, but these are sometimes re-sold as originals. I'm not that much into this, just know that he is one of the old collectors of White Russian stuff, and an Author of some books. Alas, seems like I can't post any pictures here to show some of his creatures....

hi, here are images of the russian, or ukrainian fake baltic cross. as you will notice, it is different from the screwback version that i posted on page four. entirely different!

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-4736-0-42849500-1390500346.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-4736-0-34717700-1390500365.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-4736-0-75006700-1390500389.jpg

Edited by Eric Stahlhut

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This was a VERY strange decoration, being created by Baltic Germans hoping for union with a Reich that had ceased to be, in the vacuum temporarily left by the collapse of the tsarist empire, before the Baltic republics' existence was certain.

Created as a ribboned award ONLY, it was almost immediately worn in pinback form and most often found in that form afterwards.

It is found all over in German ribbon bars. Most wearers seem to have considered it a "German" award when it was not. Although certainly FOR Freikorps service, it was essentially a FOREIGN award and belonged back there with non-German awards in precedence. Although considered official right into the Federal Republic, I have never seen it listed in regulations for precedence--probably because it was almost invariably worn as a pinback and not ribboned award.

perhaps there remains a slight glimmer of hope regarding the authenticity of my latvian-styled baltic screwback? unless many examples of this type become available on the open market, of course.

i remain pessimistic, but have been collecting long enough to have seen stranger things come to light.

essentially, what i am trying to state is that just because the baltic cross isn't done in the german style, doesn't necessarily mean that it could NOT prove to be an authentic example.

Edited by Eric Stahlhut

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In my opinion, there's no chance that this Baltic Cross is real. After my initial question on WAF (link in Destruction's answer), I've seen a few of these and they all have roughly the same kind of finish and screw-back device. They are all likely made by Alexander Chichikalov, who makes a number of very high quality Freikorps copies.

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hi bolewts58,

thanks for the input.

do you mind telling where you saw them and handled them? i've been keeping my eyes peeled for another example and have yet to encounter one. are you 100% certain that the source is chichikalov?

many thanks!

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Hello all,

here 2 pictures of my Baltic Cross. Revers the Manufacturer " Fr. Sedlatzek ".

here's the same style of cross, but with a different variation of retailer's hallmark

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_08_2014/post-4736-0-24213500-1407688773.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_08_2014/post-4736-0-87471400-1407688805.jpg

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