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    VC89

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    Everything posted by VC89

    1. Must be indeed, as Jef said, a non-official medal from a veteransorganisation of the 1st (Infantry) Regiment of the Line. The medal depicts their cap badge. Do you have a picture of the reverse of the medal?
    2. Nice topic and nice to see that even our unofficial medals are discussed by Russian collectors. The 2nd shown medal (FVA-VVW) I haven't even seen before. Still it would have been nice if they gave the source of their info. The first medal looks correct (FNVG - Fédération (Royale) Nationale des Volontaires de Guerre) - Can't find when they received the "Royal" title but they have it now. But the second one (FVA-VVW) I believe should be "Fraternelle des Volantaires de l'Armistice - Verbroedering der Vrijwilligers van den Wapenstilstand" (English: Fraternity of the Volunteers of the Armistice). It would also explains the dates on the cross "11-11-1918 / 28-06-1919". (see: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/304113-help-with-identifying-a-ww1-foreign-medal/) So I'm still a bit sceptical about the third one. Too bad it doesn't have any initials of the organisation on it, but comments in the topic might gives us a direction to seach 😉. PS. Since I can't read Russian I'm only making comments on the names of the organizations they give and not the desciption about the medal. Kind regards, Vincent
    3. @wws_raga Do you have any documentation about this? Not that I don't believe you but I can't find anything about that veterans group. I tried it in Dutch and French but both searches came back empty
    4. If you're certain it's at Huis Doorn you can try to contact the museum there (https://www.huisdoorn.nl/en/homepage/). Maybe they might recognize the picture and/or the person in it. Kind regards, Vincent
    5. Thanks Great Dane Never saw this order before, learned something new today
    6. Hey, I bought a lot of medals today and this one was among them. I have no clue what it is or from what country. The majority of the medals were civil medals from Belgium (from Word War I & II), 1 Italian (Officier in the Order of Merit) and 1 French (Officier in the Ordre des Palmes académiques). I hope someone here might recognize it. Kind regards, Vincent
    7. You could be right with it being for the Civil Medal 1s class. I have the Civil Medal 14-18 (1st and 2nd class) in their box. Th "M 1e" is the same as here but it has the date 1914-1918 above it. As usual (for some reason) the 1st clas is a red box, 2nd class a blue one. Both boxes are from "H. Walraevens & Co." My Fonson one has a different box. Kind regards, Vincent
    8. Thank Revolutie1830. I found what I was looking for. The medal is indeed made of silver, it has the mark of C.J. Buls (B above a wreath), looks like I forgot to mentioned that 🤭. The gilded part is lost over time but faintly visiable on the side. Kind regards, Vincent
    9. Nice medals. Looks like those crowns break off easily. I was annoyed at myself when mine broke off but found that it happened in the past and was fixed poorly and on the wrong spot ... it's corrected now 😛 @revolutie1830: Where do you find those citations? I cant' find anything about the name on my medal.
    10. Nice group and for a nice price too. But only the first one is an official decoration from Belgium (Military Decoration 2nd class, given to non-officers for long service in the army). It's the version from the reign of King Albert I and presumably awarded after 1919 till some time after Albert's dead in 1934. Second one is a non-official belgian medal for the occupation of the Rhine/Belgian Forces in Germany (FBA-BSD), see this topic for more info: 3rd one is a Polish one (Can't remember which one but the RP on the medallion is typical for Polish medals) Last 2 looks Belgian non-official medals. I've seen the 4th somewhere but can't remember where. Overall: not a bad buy for only £20 Kind Regads, Vincent
    11. I'm more likely to believe Borné on this one. Not only because his work is from a later date and he was familiar with Quinot's work but also because I have some of the Labour Decorations singed by the manufacturer. The most usefull one I have is the one signed by Auguste Fonson and is in it's original box. The box has his adress (Rue de Fabriques, 51). The medal is bilingual. I checked a few almanachs of the city of Brussels (1899-1905) and in the editions of 1899 to 1901 it reads that on this adress was August Fonson. In the editions of 1902-1905 it was Fonson & Cie. I think you refer to the Royal Decree of 24 October 1951. It changed the French text on Belgian decorations to both French and Dutch. The Labour Decoration is indeed one of the earliest decorations that both uses French and Dutch inscriptions but there are more examples of bilingual medals prior to 1951: The Victory Medal (1919); The Commemorative Medal of the War 1914-1918 (1919); The Medal of National Restoration 1914-1918 (1928), ... Some other medals other medals have a French and Dutch version (both official): King Albert Medal (1919); The Commemorative Decoration for the 75th Anniversary of the issue of the first postal stamp in Belgium and the 50th Anniversary of Belgium's participation in the universal postal union (aka. the Commemorative Medal of the 75th Anniversary of the Postal Services for short 😛)(1924); ...
    12. The difference in these decorations are the result of the many different manufacturers that made them. Each one made their own molds and thus the differences. Over the years molds are worn out and needed to be replaced, so even from the same munufacturer they can show some differences. It also happened that one manufacturer bought the other one and got a hold on their molds so that two different manufacturers can have the same design. (Still following? 😛) Common manufacturers are/were: Wolfers, P. Degreef, Mauquoy, Fisch, Fonson, Walravens ... and many others. The earlier ones were made by jewelers like J.G. Dutalis, Allard, C.J. Buls, J. Heremans, etc. Some of them are easy to recognize by their design. If you like these differences the work of Antti Ruokones, who's mentioned a few post back, is a must. He compares many makers and their differences in design. It's probably not 100% accurate (as it's nearly impossible) but it's the best attempt to list the differences and linking them to a manufacturer that I've seen this far. Not necessarily, the way they are stored has a big influence on how they aged. If they are always kept in the box, locked in a drawer and never came in contact with the sun, they will look far better than one that is mounted in a frame that hangs on a wall and comes in direct contact with light. Also is the medal worn a lot or not? Is it cleaned in the past or not? ... (Sun)light and rubbing are a medal's worst nightmare.
    13. Took a look at my library and found another English book about Belgian medals: "Identification of the more common Medals of Belgium" by Daniel M. Byrne. Simular to Hendrik's website but with less information, unclear pictures and it only goes as far as 1977. But it has a ribbon chart at the beginning, so it can help with identifying unknown belgian medals.
    14. Between 1908 and 1951. If you are interested in Belgian medals/decorations, Hendrik's website is a very good one to identify and get a summary of the medal. For most collectors it got all the information they need. If you want to know more about them you're going to need to learn how to read French or Dutch 😋 For Belgian orders there is a good book in English called "The Spirit of the Lion, Orders of Belgium" by Antti Ruokonen. There was also a website about the Military Decoration created by Guy Deploige (I think he's a member here too) but the link I saved is now invalid . Does anyone know if he has a new website/link?
    15. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the wrong type of swords. Belgium was (and is) not that strict when it comes to medals and decorations and many variants do exist. So the wrong types of swords don't really mean that it is fake or added by the seller to get more money. The swords should also be a later addition to the medal anyway. They were awarded for actions (war titles as they call it) during WW I but are created by Royal Decree in 1939 and the gilded ones by R.D. in 1971. I haven't seen the original publication of the R.D.(just the text), so I'm not sure if there is a drawing of the swords attached to it. Even the later swords (40-45) have different versions.
    16. It's a long shot, but maybe this site can help: https://nl.findagrave.com/
    17. Belgium and it's medals ... You can have one medal in many different versions and found in even more different boxes (not including the combinations done later by sellers, collectors, ...) But I guess that is one of the reasons why we like to collect them 😁
    18. Didn't really noticed it before but just in case you don't know it yet: they are not the same medals ... well they are the same medals (jewels) but bacause of the ribbon it is a different one. The first one is the "Civic Medal 1st class for Long Service in the Administration" the second one is the "Civic Medal 2nd class for Acts of Bravery, Devotion and Philantrophy".
    19. It seems that for some reason they like to use red for 1st class and blue for 2nd class. Some other examples: And as I said before, Belgium is not very strict about these things. I don't even think the color of the box is set as a "rule" but rather something they just did.
    20. Shouldn't be there a "L II" (monogram of King Leopold II) on the box? I have some simular ones with only the "2nd class" (in French, Dutch or both) on it and in most of them have the civil "Labour Decoration, 2nd Class" and the "Civil Decoration, 2nd class" for civil guard/fire brigade inside. Now Belgium is not known for its strictness when it comes to medals and probably most 2nd class medals could have been sold/awarded in a box like this.
    21. I never really trust those portret pictures. Not that I don't believe it was a real soldier and the owner of the medals, but some things are usually off with them. I heard from an other collector once that military 'props" were present in the photo studio, so the shown insignia/uniforms aren't always the one the "model" would wear in active service. In this picture I see the War Cross, Military Decoration 2nd class (no palm, so it should be for long (10 year) service*), Yser-medal (not the cross) and the last one is hard to figure out but doesnt look like one in the frame. I also see 8 frontstripes and no Victory Medal or Commemorative Medal. So if it is his real outfit this means the picture would have been taken late 1918 or early 1919. The Knight in the Order of Leopold (military division), the Knight in the Order of Leopold II and Golden Palms in the Order of the Crown are all consistent with a long service in the military (seeing the bottom medal's inscription "sous-officier" I'm thinking he was a NCO which is also consistent with the Military Decoration, an officer would receive the Military Cross.) The Crossed Swords on the Knight in the Order of Leopold (created in 1939) indicates that he has won enough "war titles" during the First World War and is placed on the highest medal (knight or higher) in one of the national orders (It doesn't mean he won this medal for his wartime service). *The chevron on the medal in the frame suggest that it was indeed a professional soldier who continued serving after the war and his Military Decoration got upgraded (15 years) to 1st class. Weird since he's also a War Volunteer, but maybe it's possible. Maybe those 4 years of war count for this medal after he left the army after 11 years and volunteered during the war (Just thinking out loud). But then again ... these are Belgian decorations and regulations about them or the strict use of them is not our strong suit 😛
    22. Seeing it in real life is always better but on the picture it looks fine to me. The medal and the cross do have some of that weird green in the top circle. But the image looks fine and the medal has some nice patina. Ribbon looks aged but kept under good conditions. If I would have found it like this I would probably have bought it if it was sold at the right price.
    23. Just a small remark: Note that those "restrikes" and "copies" are legit medals of that order. In Belgium only the design is described in the Law or Royal Decree. Everybody can fabricate them as long as they follow the given design and they are considered official. You can buy and sell the freely but only wear them when you are awarded with them (and received the certificate for it). The Royal Order of the Lion (and the Order of the African Star as well) is still an active order, althoug dorment since 1960s. It has never been abolished by Law or Royal Decree. So this medals are real pieces of the Royal order of the Lion, not just the ones that we collectors like to buy. In Belgium it is usually so that the recipient has to buy their own decoration. Only the certificate is awarded for free by the government. So there are many manufacturers who provide official decorations: P. De Greef, Mauquoy, Fibru, ... What might be considered restrikes or copies are modern fabrications with only the french text. Since 1951 they must be bilingual (french-dutch). With only the dutch text (if exist) are considered unofficial.
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