Mondvor

I feel really happy when the groups separated years ago by greedy dealers or careless veteran's relatives finally can reunite once again. Those orders deserve to stay together because they are real witnesses of many historical events of XX century. I hope some day missing Red Star from this group would also reappear somewhere. So far, unfortunately, I don't have any traces of this number. Let's keep our eyes open. If two orders from the group came to the market, it is a great chance to find another one.

OK, in this case it is August - November 1942 award.

As far as I can see, the number is 98.XXX. So it is a 1943 award. It was issued sometime between December 1942 and March 1943, but bestowed to the cavalier in the period from February to May 1943. Well, make a research and you will find out the truth

Gerd, my congratulations! You are doing great job on the forum! Keep going! And thanks a lot for your interesting citations

reverse

Well, I've personally observed 3 Tractor Lenins One in USA and two in Ukraine. I have friends who posess amazing collections and they are kind enough to give me an opportunity to study their items. If you send me a good picture of any suspicious order from your collection, I'll be more than happy to tell you my opinion and expain you the details. In difficult cases I always ask my friends for help. More opinions, more chances to find the truth. But I prefer to do that in personal mail, not on public forum. Mainly because "we don't want to educate the fakers", as you truly mentioned. Fakes are getting better every day and we have to be in constant updating process. For example, what do you think about this Gold Star? Correct answer would be "it is fake". But the quality is incredible

Ed, sometimes it is not possible to explain every aspect of authenticity features of a particular order. It really doesn't matter wether or not you speak Russian or English or other language. Same holds true for Russian-speaking collectors as well. It would come with experience. If you observe 10 real orders and 11th would be a fake, you recognize it right away. I do not remember that Paul McDaniel EVER explained any of his verdicts on his certificates. Nevertheless people were happy about his certificates and didn't ask him any questions. But in my case you demand explanation. Such information costs big money (considering our present prices on the market). And many people prefer to keep they own little secrets and not share them to anyone. When I can, I always explain my opinion. Even on this forum I did it several times (for example with those BH screwbacks). If you have any suspicious order just send a good images and I'll be happy to express my opinion about it. But I expect some hard work from other side too. Should we only rely on some experts? Maybe we should try to learn something by ourselves? That was my point from the very beginning. We have to learn, collect information, transform it, and make a conclusions. We should analyze scans, seek for "watermarks", compare the configurations of mintmarks and styles of handwritings in serial numbers. Only this way we would gain some skills.

Christian, I don't think that I am a real "expert". I'm in the process of constant learning and for me it is still a long way to go until I would say that I'm more or less "expert". But on the creation of Mondvor website we work as a team. Besides my co-author Igor Pak there are few more persons, who have really long history of being in phaleristics activities. They help with the scans, with the information and with good advices. However, some of them belong to "old school" of collectors and they are not very familiar with modern computer technologies. Some of them have old crappy scanners with low level of resolution, so the images they send are not perfect. Still, I'm very grateful even for those low-quality images because "something is better than nothing". I'm always trying to improve the images in Photoshop, but it doesn't work in number of cases. So we have what we have...

I hope that those images whould explain most of the questions. I don't want to go back to ABC level of collecting and explain the facts about patination of gold (which is extremely difficult to fake even nowadays), about mintmark details, about "watermarks" on medallion and about the handwriting in the serial number. I would be happy to see this level of quality fakes mentioned by Christian. Most of the fakes I've seen before failed to match one or more of the criterias listed above.

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Four-reverse.

Four

Three.

Two-reverse...

Two.

One

Christian, First of all, there are no fakes presented on our web site. If you find some unusually looking items it only means that you did not observe enough similar specimens. Not just myself, but several other experienced collectors from former USSR make a decision about the authenticity of the order before placing it on the website. I do not understand your position. If you are trying to say that those orders are fakes and you are doing it in front of many forum members - it is a very serious accusation. I have no idea who you are and what level of experience with Suvorovs do you have. Maybe you are more skilled than many well-known Russian collectors? Anyway, if you want to continue, I can present my arguments about their authenticity and then I will accept your public apologies in front of other forum members.

The chapter about the order of Suvorov was added to the English version of Mondvor web-site today. I hope you will find it to be interesting.

With this quality of images I can say nothing. Need big sharp pictures with visible details.

I would not agree. I think it was not made from 3rd class. It is totally cast-made fake order. Just look at this ugly ring on the reverse and crappy rivets.

It is much easier to hire some native Russian guy to work as a spy

Oh, sorry, I forgot to explain this. Of course he took the tires. Word "резина" is a slang term for tires and in direct translation means "rubber". I have no idea why the hell he took those tires. Most likely to sell them out to somebody. For windshield wipers is another slang word - "дворники" - (yard-keeper or janitor... a person who works with a broom).

Few additions to Supyan's story. He was studied for 3 years in the Art School in the city of Vitebsk (Belorussia) till August 1938. So he was an artist Then he entered an Artillery School... quite a turn in the priorities... Since May 10, 1940 he was a commander of a management platoon in 10th Artillery Regiment (48th Rifle Division). Since 1941 he was a chief of reconnaissance of an artillery divizion (not Division) in 320th PAP of 28th Army, Western Front. In Russian PAP (ПАП) means Пушечный Артиллерийский Полк - Cannon (or Gun) Artillery Regiment. It was one type of Artillery Regiment used in Red Army. Another was GAP (ГАП) - Гаубичный Артиллерийский Полк (Howitzer Artillery Regiment). Later he was a commander of a Staff Battery of 364th Red Banner Howitzer Artillery Regiment (GAP) RGK. RGK (РГК) means Резерва Главного Командования (Chief Commander's Reserve). Next position - divizion's (not Division's) Chief of Staff in 364th Red Banner Howitzer Artillery Regiment (GAP) RGK. Next position - divizion's Chief of Staff in 118th TGABr, 6th Artillery Division. ТГАБр (TGABr) - means Heavy Howitzer Artillery Brigade - Тяжелая Гаубичная Артиллерийская Бригада. After 1943 many Artillery Regiments of RGK were transformed in Artillery Brigades that were united in Artillery Divisions (another name Breakthrough Artillery Divisions - Артиллерийская Дивизия Прорыва). Since March 20, 1946 he was a Deputy of the Head of Officer Artillery School in 118th TGABr. Those schools were created in many units and provided additional training for junior officers who lack experience. Since October 16, 1946 he hold the same position, but in 10th TGABr GSOVG. GSOVG (ГСОВГ) means Группа Советских Оккупационных Войск в Германии - A Group of Soviet Occupation Troops in Germany. Then he was transferred to Kiev Military District in 1950 and served as a platoon commander in 706th Regular (Кадровый) Howitzer Artillery Regiment (5th Guards Regular Artillery Breakthrough Division RGK). From 1951 he became divizion's Chief of Staff in 67th Howitzer Artillery Brigade in the same 5th Guards Artillery Breakthrough Division RGK. Four years later he retired. About "легковой автомобиль" - it means regular 5-person sedan car. In contrast "грузовой автомобиль" means truck. This is pretty much it