Mondvor

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As I promised before...

Christian, I would not say anything about the price, it is own business of every dealer... I want to put my five cents about reissue subject of this RBL. Type 1 (or "triangle") was manufactured since 1931. By November 1932 the total number of 3674 orders of Type 1 were produced. About 2000 of them were issued. When Type 2 came to business, all unissued "triangles" were returned from Award Department of Supreme Soviet back to the Mint and destroyed. Instead RBL Type 2 with the same numbers were made. So technically it is a reissue because this oreder Type 2 was made to replace early Type 1 that have had same serial number.

Christian, of course HSU have had priviligies before 1967 as well. They have had many benefits since this title was introduced. And all those introductory benefits listed in HSU booklet (back pages). But in 1967 and 1975 the numbers of benefits and priviligies were increased. Sorry, it is hard to give detailed answer on many of your questions because I didn't do any special research on this topic and some things are unknown to me. About the Guard units I can say this: In according with NCO (Narodnij Comissariat Oboroni - National Defence Commetee) from November 17, 1941 all officers and generals of Guard units started to receive 1.5 times of regular salaries (payments) and for privates and sergeants it was 2 times increase. I'm not sure about cancellation time for extra payments in Guard units. In Soviet Army such units existed until the last days of USSR (and maybe they are still in business in modern Russian Army). About the booklets - I'll place the pictures after I will return back home from my job.

In 1960th and 1970th there was very difficult situation with appartments in big cities. Many families were waiting in lines (queues) for years to receive separate appartment. Of course they were waiting not in actual queues, but in some sorts of waiting lists. And if your number was, lets say, 234 it was no chance for you to get an appartment in next 5 or 6 years. But for HSU and others some exceptions were made. They were able to receive an appartment without waiting, as soon as a new house was built. So their families were happy. And it was true for the cars as well. Automobile industry in former USSR was weak and in 70th and early 80th people waiting long time to buy a new car. For war heroes it was easier.

Nice coupon book for the medal Here is same amount of money (5 roubles) coupon book for the order. Glory 3rd class probably... Orderbook coupons are bluish in color while medalbook coupons are reddish. I have pictures of other coupons with different payment amounts. Let me know if you are interested and I'll place them here.

Hi Christian, It is a hard question, because privileges for HSU, HSL and others changed many times during Soviet history. But most likely you are interested in two major changes. First took place in according with the Ukaz from September 6, 1967 (dedicated to 50th anniversary of October Revolution). This Ukaz made full cavaliers of Glory equal to HSU and HSL in their privileges. This Ukaz gave HSU, HSL and full Glory cavaliers the right to have personal increased pensions (after-retirement money payments), several benefits for receiving own appartments from the government and others. Second Ukaz was issued on April 30, 1975 (dedicated to 30 years of Victory). This was the one that canceled queues in front of shops for HSU and others. Actually in many cities special shops for veterans vere opened. You can show your special ID and once a month get many goods (mostly food) that were unavailable in a regular stores. Also this Ukaz gave the right to free use of public transportation, annual trip to sanatorium and others.

There are two moments that could be interesting about this document. First - for most 2nd class Glories the new orderbook was issued. I've seen several orderbooks where 2nd class was added to previously issued 3rd class orderbook, but those count only about 10 percent from separated orderbook cases. Second - on the picture it seems that words in the order name are not well aligned. Maybe it is just because of a bad quality of picture, hard to say for sure. If better picture is available I can compare the individual style of each letter with original seals.

Hi Christian, Here is a page from official book about awards regulations. You can see that you were right about the Glory orders. Also at the bottom it says that there is no money payments for "polkovodets" awards.

I'm sorry, I didn't get this passage at all. Maybe because of my non-perfect English

Interesting. I spent some time looking for images of real Great Seals of Supreme Soviet Presidium, then I posted them to the forum to demonstrate that they are different from Burdin seal. No one gave any comments to that. Why? No one is interested to look for a truth? Doc wrote "I know that Neither of them are going to buy or sell a fake!!!". Did I say that the book is fake? No, I did not. I said that picture and a seal might not belong to this group. It is my opinion and I gave very clear examples why I think so. We all have to realize that it is impossible to be 100% sure that the item you have in your collection is not fake. Some people just unaware of it. Even big experts like Paul Mc Daniel could make mistakes, because some fakes are highly detailed professional pieces of art. Dave wrote "I still have yet to hear anyone's reasoning as to how someone who got a book without photo would just HAPPEN to guess that it belonged to someone the right age and demenor (and quite possibly physical build) as the actual recipient, when the award could have been awarded to anyone. Luck perhaps?" I think you should not be Sherlok Holmes to make "educated guess" about the recipient. First of all it is a man, not a woman. Secondly it should be a person not elder than 30. Who else can get MM in 1967? It is a chance that it's an award from WW II that finally found the recipient. But in this case the actual number of Prikaz of the unit and it's date should be written in the book. So most likely it is some young person from Red Army at the age of 18 - 30. This picture shows a guy that is about 22 - 25. Not a big deal to guess. I'm really sorry that I started this discussion. Please let me know if you find Burdin's image from a personal file. I would be happy to confess that I'm wrong. BTW, in some of my previous posts I mentioned that the picture could be real. but the seal is fake. Noone payed attention, however With respect to everyone, Andrew.

Doc, I would not judge about groups that you mentioned, because I didn't see them. I'm talking only about this one MM group right now. To agree with me or not it is up to you. But many collectors have some kind of "denial syndrom". They don't want to believe that they have fakes. I gave several arguments, I illustrated them with examples. And you just say that "I disagree with your opinion" because "I have 100% confidence in my groups documents including Service record picture and feel the same about Ed's group". It really sounds strange to me.

I was distracted by your word "another". If we talk about this very group, why do you call it another? Were is the second one in this case? In my early post I said that in my opinion medal and orderbook are original. The only fake elements that were added later are picture and the seal. Also I explained the reason why they might be added to original group.

Lavochkin's 54 is his Hero of Socialist Labor medal. Picture taken in a museum through the glass, sorry for the reflection

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Sure Gerd, here they are...

Sorry Ed, what group do you mean?

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