tifes

Here, I would be very careful. Rozet&Fischmeister piece (first on left) is probably having the War Decoration replaced. It's definitely not original one and it might be latter manufacture. Köchert piece (in the middle) has the War Decoration completely missing as it was originally a piece with WD. Moreover central shields looked to be damaged and repaired (not very sophisticated indeed) Last one (on the right) seems like gilded bronze piece made without WD in somehow better quality. Regards, Tifes/Tomas

Hi, FJO is in gilded bronze. Yes, you can definitely find better pieces on the market but on the other side I do not see there any massive/significant damage to enamels (if not tricked by the reflection). It's about the preference and price, willing to pay. Red Cross Officer with War Decoration looks to be in very good condition indeed. Moreover, it's cased. If the price is not over the roof, I would take it. Regards, Tifes/Tomas

Well, I would rather skip this one...

Hi, it looks like Resch miniature chain with FJO knight-mini (before 1867, without hallmarks) to me. Both ones should be in gold. Case doesn't belong to it, I would say. Regards, t.

Hi, well, I didn´t say that "H.D. Rauch" piece is not an original 2nd piece (on the contrary) but I liked more the MDZ 1st class for 50 years on the first picture, which was in better quality. If you would like to acquire an awarded piece in gilded silver as displayed by Elmar Lang then prepare yourself to wait for a very long time and then to pay a significant price for it (now I would say between 5000 to 6000 EUR). Regards, Tomas/Tifes

It would be from the same "basket" as the previous one. In my honest opinion not worth of the money asked as an addition to a decent collection.

Hi, H.D. Rauch auction. I think it´s a private purchased piece in gilded bronze, with good chances to be made pre-1918 (further inspection would be fine). The whole thing was basically simple as higher officer, usually general or colonel (there were also some Lt.Col, few Majors and one Captain only) reached 50 years of service, received the Military Service Cross 1st Class for 50 years in silver, and had their original 2nd Class Crosses privately altered by adding a crown in surmounting. This is what it looks like, maybe not the best quality though. Regards, Tomas/Tifes

Hi, No one knows the exact number of how many of KM 1873 medals were made, but rough estimates says around 2.5 million pieces till 1918. That's a huge number, and there were probably dozens of makers. They were produced in different variations, metals, variants. From a phaleristic point of view, the "KOENIG" and "DEZEMBER" variants are more popular (and thus more expensive), as are special finishes, e.g. in silver or with enameled or galalith (a form of early plastic) reverse. I don't know weather you will ever be able to decipher the letter "Z" on your medal and also in my opinion it is not even important how many leaves are in the wreath. What is important is to have KM 1873 in good condition and on the original ribbon in your collection, as it is one of the most iconic medals of old Austria. Some pics with examples of "Koenig", "Dezember" and Galalith reverse in the post. Regards, Tifes (Tomas)

Hi Stefan, „Among the most important manufacturers of the first production period were the Viennese company Alexander Kittner and, from the 1860s, the Joseph Resch company. “ - courtesy translation; Ludwigstorff/Ortner, Österreichs Orden und Ehrenzeichen, Part I/ Volume II, Der kaiserliche-österreichische Franz Joseph-Orden, page 292 I suppose that's not enough for you, but in the meantime, as your post came up, while I was at a militaria show in Germany and had the opportunity and honor (as always) to meet one of the greatest experts of Austrian orders, Mr. Rochowanski. He owned phaleristic shop in very downtown of Vienna (closed some years ago) and he had original and reprinted versions of old catalogues, including Resch, dated from 1864-1876, which contained orders. I had a chance to see them some 10 years ago. He confirmed the dates as peak of Gebr.Resch production (quoted also in Ludwigstorff/Ortner book), but he also advised me to look into “Fabrikanten” book (the same sources as you quoted here) for more precision as it could be a bit sooner. So, I did and he was right (as always). Gebr, Resch was established in 1853 and till 1857 he is stated only as “holder of stock of jewelry, gold and silver ware”, but since 1858 there is a new statement “delivery of all decorations of k.k. FJO for k.k. Lord Chamberlain's Office”, which basically means that 1858 is the year when (only) FJO production by Gebr. Resch started. So here I was obviously wrong and I apologize sincerely, but there is no proof that orders production started immediately after the company was set up in 1853 either. There is another fact confirmed, which was discussed here. Gebr. Resch had its branch in Romania, Bucharest. 1857: 1858: Gebr. Resch company was kuk Kammer-Juweliere (Chamber Jeweller) till 1876. In year 1877, Gebr. Resch is not listed anymore and it´s replaced by Mayer´s. This is generally considered as the end of its orders production. After this date Gebr. Resch is not figuring as the orders maker anymore. Facts, which you can verify here: https://alex.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/alex?aid=shb&size=45 In Dorotheum there are antiquity auctions held couple of times a year, with many gold and silver products from Rothe and Mayers. Please scroll it over, if you want. I am really not going to look in dozens of catalogues for some table clock (Rothe did not have own mechanism, but was doing “cases”), doses or vases or I don’t know what else. However, my primary reaction was at this very daring statement: Where is it stated? All (underlined!) means everything, right? Golden Fleece, StSO, LO, EKO, FJO + maybe also others (Elisabeth-Orden, Sternkreuzorden…). And no, "…are not known” doesn’t mean that some “Mr. Tomas” didn’t see them in his life and yes, it means the second, they are not known for the community. There is a book, which I quoted at the beginning, 6 volumes in 3 parts. It took 15 years for dr. Ludwigstorff to put it together. Of course, it´s not perfect but generally it´s considered a very important reference book. Right? He had access to HGM, Schatzkammer deposits and to the collection of all (only) Austrians important collectors. Displayed Gebr. Resch decorations in all these 6 books are FJO decorations (badges of knights, commander/GK + breast stars), EKO III so called “transition type” (“dickes Huhn”; about 1860/1865) and Merit Crosses. There is also a box for MVK earlier type (I have it too), but there is no proof that Gebr. Resch made MVK too (as other companies like Braun). But even if. And that´s pretty much all. Where are the others? Rothe which made indeed almost all decorations at the turn of centuries, employed 160 specialists only in the orders department. Gebr.Resch never reached this capacity and thus it wasn´t even possible. As I wrote above “inductive reasoning based on the empirical experience”. How likely is that the whole and entire HGM, Schatzkammer and Austrian collectors community do not have one single piece of MMTO, StSO or LO made by Gebr. Resch, but “Mr. Stefan” thinks different, showing us some picture (without any further context) with pretty cunning and by all means no toxic statement: Regards, Tomas

Dear Stefan, I see that from polite conversation you trespassed to toxic one. Please do not mix it up with some FB. This is serious forum. However, I think that I know the reason. Anyway, I wrote about production years of GB concerning only the decorations, based on the catalogues containing them. Earlier or later catalogues of this company simply do not have them listed. If GB made golden watches or jewellery in 1850s, it was not a object of this discussion. We are talking here about decorations not general antiquities. Well, I see ellipsoid suspension with "Gebr. RESCH" engraved. It would be lovely to see the rest, because as we all know, the devil is hidden in the details. In the recent past I should have seen MMTO Commander Cross of FM Borojević von Bojna and guess what...I did not... Regards, T.

Hi, the first sales catalogue, which also included the decorations, appeared after the establishment of the shop on Kohlmarkt in 1864 and the last one in 1876. All of the important order makers like Rothe or Mayers were jewellers and goldsmiths who also made watches, jewellery and bijoux. Rothe existed on this production until the early 1990s. And Zimbler, for example, originally made tinware. But that's not important from a phaleristic point of view. The Gebrüder Resch decorations that are known were FJO and VK. I personally have in my collection a MVK/KD etui for the 2nd model (1860-1866) with "Gebrüder Resch" signature on the inner part of the lid. There is also a corresponding MVK/KD in the etui, but I can't confirm it's GB production. In any case, GB made boxes so decorations probably too. Other decorations from other orders "departments", including MMTO, of GB production are not known. The "claim", as you stated it above, is then based on empirical induction. Regards, T.

Hi Farmer, "Gebrueder Resch" was a jewellery company based in Vienna, at Kohlmarkt. They produced high quality decorations like Franz-Joseph Order´s decorations (knight and commanders/GK crosses and breast stars) as well as Merit Crosses with or without crown in Gold and Silver, but also Military Merit Crosses (earlier versions,very scarce). Company was active in years 1864-1876. It´s generally believed that it moved to Romania afterwards, because there are not any further pieces made by Resch in Austria-Hungary after above-mentioned period, but they are in Romania. So it´s very interesting what you are saying. Coincidence of name and two different jewelers? it might be! There would be just one question left...what happened with Viennese "Gebrueder Resch" after 1876? Regards, Tomas

Hi, the original crosses had a stamp of the Vienna Mint (eagle in lozenge) on the loop (pls look at the picture, taken from net). In any case the cross is heavily worn off, the ribbon is just modern replacement and the same for the suspension. If the cross is not named on the rim (private finish, usually it contains name of awardee, his rank and sometimes the unit) then I would be looking for a more "complete" piece. Regards, T.

Hi, for me it's definitely a big NO! Both central medaillons might be originals as Rothe kept the parts of former AH decorations "in drawers", which were used in later collectors pieces till 1980s. So, the both central medaillons, avers and revers, could be pre-1918 originals, however further inspection in flesh would be required. The rest, the cross itself seems to be of much inferior quality and the worst comes with suspension with hallmarks/ maker's mark on it. These are just fakes as no other description comes to my mind, because they were made with the purpose to fool somebody. I would recommend to keep hands off it. Regards, Tifes (Tomas)

However, in next years (1915-1918), as the Great War progressed, it deteriorated quickly, ended up at the equivalent of today´s 3,6 EUR in 1918. These boxes were used for distribution and stocking in masses in retailers stores, as Enzo wrote above, and it mainly concerns WW1 period when BMVM became quite common decoration even for subaltern officers, so the demand was high. I dare to say this box originates from this period. Before 1914 BMVM wasn´t very common decoration as being usually awarded to Staff Officers (majors and up), much less often to long serving captains and only very occasionally and scarcely to 1st and 2nd lieutenants, usually for some life saving action (like engineers helping by floods and rescue someone from "big water").

All 9 books (3 series of two books each) in English (available also in German, of course): https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/author/christian-ortner-georg-ludwigstorff/ Iron Crown Order is in the Part I (2nd book)

Yes, I was referring to the maker´s mark of Rothe but as you probably know all orders had to be returned to Order´s Chancellery after the decease of the awarded person. It happened many times that decoration was distorted, mainly it concerned enamels. Maker repaired it, sometimes even replaced some parts, which were totally destroyed or even missing. Then such decoration could have been composed of different parts from different period. In any case it had to re-hallmarked (if possible, sometimes not because it would destroy enamels), consequently returned to back to the Order´s Chancellery and awarded once again to another person. So I do not know what´s on the first picture but it´s something that was entirely or at least partly made before 1867 and then hallmarked according new law from November 1866 (valid as of 1. January 1867) I believe it´s Rothe, because of some signs like suspension, central medallion, enamels quality, overall execution etc. It´s close to this one: https://www.emedals.com/europe/austria-imperial/orders/order-of-maria-theresa/a-napoleonic-order-of-maria-theresa-to-the-von-pittel-family , which should be Rothe too. There were more producers during Napoleonic wars and then in 1820s and 1830s not only official ones (Kobril, Schmidt) but later this practice of private pieces of different size, quality etc. was forbidden and even later (since late 1850) there was just Rothe who repaired old pieces and produced also new ones. Mayers came only just at the latest stage as private maker. All 3 MMTO-knights of Ernst August von Hannover as pictured in the above mentioned book are of Rothe production and they are all different, as you can see. Your MMTO-knight is very similar to MMTO-Commander on the page 264 and MMTO-knight of GdI Graf Clam-Gallas on the page 284 (first line, very right). I wouldn´t say that Rothe changed pattern very often. Rothe had just more than one stamping tool and they were not entirely identical.

Hi Stefan, "tested two times"...basically you can put it like that. There was a development in hallmarking in old Austria in 3 consecutive bills. First from May 1865 stipulated that all items of precious metal must have maker´s mark and be proofed by hallmarking office for the content. Second one from 27. May 1866 (came into force as of 1. August 1866) introduced the obligation to hallmark all item with the hallmark showing the proportion of precious metal or "Feingehaltpunze", later called "stock hallmark" or "Vorratpunze", because such items had been hallmarked before 1. January 1867 when the Hallmark Bill adopted on 30. November 1866 came into force and then some of them being held in the stock. Third one it that from 30. November 1866. Your first picture - item produced before 1/1/1867, hallmarked with 750 "Feingehaltpunze"/"Vorratpunze" as obliged by the hallmarking law of 27/5/1866 but put in the sale/ sent to Order´s chancellery later after 1/1/1867 (might be even years later), so went through second hallmarking according the later law. Second picture (if there is nothing else) - item hallmarked according the law of 27/5/1866, before 1/1/1867 Remember one thing...it was just on the paper. Hallmarking meant paying taxes and "bending the rules" and to sale orders privately even without "proper hallmarking" wasn't so uncommon. What I can add that both orders on the pictures were made by Rothe till mid-1880s, when this particular Rothe maker´s mark was used.

Difference between hallmark 60 and 61 is very slight. No 60 is for Hallmarking Office (Punzierungsamt) in Vienna and No 61 with "vertical line" (mit senkrechtem Strich) is for a Branch of Hallmarking Office (Filialpunzierungsamt) in Vienna I. This one was used from 1867 onwards but No 60 is very old one and was in use since 1807. That lead us to 750 hallmark. There is no true that first hallmarking law was adopted just in January 1867. There were different regulations for hallmarking for different parts of Monarchy since 18th century. Bit messy and many small items like jewellery and orders were exempted. This changed with hallmark act of 1867 which unified the system for the whole Monarchy and introduced the obligation for all items to be hallmarked, even small ones made of precious metals. 750 is so-called "stock hallmark" (Vorratpunze) for 18k. gold pieces. In the hallmark act of 1867 it was stipulated that stocks of silver and gold items which had not yet been officially hallmarked were to be provided with a stock hallmark similar to the older regulations, provided that the precious metal content exceeded at least a quarter of the total value.This is why we see "750" hallmark sometimes alone, sometimes mixed with "new" hallmarks of 1867. So golden pieces made closely before or during the introduction of hallmark act 1867 plus some years on (like till 1870, still old stock used) could be seen with this stock hallmark of 750.

Do not forget that Rothe was not only orders maker but predominantly an exclusive jewellery maker. During its very long existence the company made for gentlemen various brooches, gold watch chains, tie clips, cufflinks, even golden tabatiers. All placed in various cases and boxes with maker´s mark on the lid. I would say that this might be the case. So the case per se it´s really Rothe case but it had totally different content once upon the time, obviously never EK1/EK2. "Upgrade" was made much later, maybe even by "EK1/EK2 Träger" himself but definitely those Iron crosses had never to do with Rothe.

Hallo Stefan, thank you for sharing. What I see on provided photos: 1.) beautiful MMTO-knight of very early Rothe manufacture, which corresponds to the info that you have got from previous owner, late 1850s/early 1860s...and thus Solferino is very likely. Congrats! 2.) "Zum General(en) Clam Gallas" was something like re-seller. I doubt that he produced any decorations. He just purchased it from another party, put "the sticker" on it (kind of publicity) and sold it. I have something very similar from him, with private purchased MVK/KD (3rd class, 2nd model about 1860) inside the case, like in HGM. Being honest, it was a mystery for me too because there is no evidence that G. Resch produced MVKs either. Your case is original for MMTO, I have no doubts about it but Gebrueder Resch never made any MMTO, which is basically sure fact. And that moves it on... Possible thesis: G. Resch made during its short active period (early 1860s, then moved to Bucharest) also, except known pieces (FJO, GVK/mdK), just cases for various decorations for other companies that he never produced. Any additional thoughts? Regards, Tomas

Hi, nice collection indeed. MMTO in Gebruder Resch case would be strange as this company never produced any MMTO (at least it´s not known). Cross made in late 1850s/1860s would be probably of Rothe manufacture, although still without hallmarks and probably also maker´s mark. Without close-up pics it is hard to tell. Best, t.

It´s Golden Bravery Medal FJI model 1859. These versions (both FJI ones: 1849, 1859) were awarded from "old stock" in 1914/1915. It can be seen it´s in mint condition as never been worn. Hallmarks on the suspension are Polish ones from period the 1963-1986 and been struck on the medal for unknown reasons, most probable story would be either legal import to Poland or official sale in Poland when tax should have been paid.

Hi, it looks like good, late WWI piece to me. However, the ribbon seems to be a newer replacement. Regards, Tomas

Hi, useful tread to learn a distinction between AH and Hungarian (1922-1945) medals bars: Of course, some "flexibility" for AH officers/ NCOs was tolerated by military authorities (in comparison to Prussia, for instance) but we should stick to the facts as Enzo mentioned above and not to "adore various legends". Good literature and study of information from verified historical sources is the only way forward. It's at least so important as collecting itself. Regards, Tifes (Tomas)