filfoster

Thanks, I think it would. I only display them like this, on a table top. They are made to fit me, in the unlikely event anyone would ever ask me to wear it!

Stogieman: Thank you. It's been a long slog. Still working on the Bavarian Field marshal parade baton. Maybe this year sometime. I will post a picture if and when.

OK, Here is the current display:

Here it is. I gold plated it.

Walter: Here is the ebay listing photo for a supposed real one

Walter: That is a good suggestion that I didn't follow. After thinking on it and seeing a real one listed for 10x that price, I just bought it. Please accept my thanks again for helping to find it! Be well my friend!

Waldo: Vielen Danke. I think this is just a bit too expensive. I'd go 150 Euros but there is no 'best offer' for it yet. I am watching it. Thank you for letting me know. I appreciate it. 

Anyone know of a source for a good reproduction of the COLOMBEY-NOUILLY clasp?

..the other likely possibility is that he wore regular red underlay shoulder boards and just had a '7' added. They are somewhat oversized, to my eye, as another point of interest.

These boards are very large and there is no visible underlay. If the boards were regimental, they would have a cornflower blue base and a rose secondary underlay, visible. He had this appointment or right to wear the uniform of the 7th Dragoons pre-war; there are photos of him wearing it at the 1913 'Kaiser' maneuvers. 

I posit that he's wearing the same detachable shoulder boards, Bavarian general's cords on red base not visible, with the gilt '7' added between the lower crossed silver Bavarian FM baton arms, as he wore on the uberrock worn in the photos of him at the 1913 maneuvers, and also below. The size, and lack of visible base and underlay colors also support this. This was also the practice, I believe, of non-Prussian officers receiving appointments to Prussian regiments.

Can anyone corroborate or correct?

1 minute ago, filfoster said:

These boards are very large and there is no visible underlay. If the boards were regimental, they would have a cornflower blue base and a rose secondary underlay, visible. He had this appointment or right to wear the uniform of the 7th Dragoons pre-war; there are photos of him wearing it at the 1913 'Kaiser' maneuvers. 

I posit that he's wearing the same detachable shoulder boards, Bavarian general's cords on red base not visible, with the gilt '7' added between the lower crossed baton arms, as he wore on the uberrock worn in the photos of him at the 1913 maneuvers. The size, and lack of visible base and underlay colors also support this. This was also the practice, I believe, of non Prussian officers receiving appointments to Prussian regiments.

Can anyone corroborate or correct?

 

Bump; also please see related thread in uniform forum:  Are the shoulder boards Prussian (Prussian silver/black chevron center braid and Prussian batons) or Bavarian?   I understand they would be on the appropriate cornflower blue/rose underlay boards.

Leopold von Bayern wore the uniform of the 7th Prussian Dragoon regiment.

1. Does anyone know why? Was he ala suite or honorary chef?  And, in what year did he receive this honor?

2:   What shoulder boards is he wearing?  Prussian or Bavarian?  I understand that he would have worn the FM boards of the state (Bavaria) that he held that rank when the honor was given. He was made a Prussian FM in January, 1916.

3. Would he have carried the Prussian interimstab or the Bavarian?

Danke, Waldo!

Yes. 

23 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

He received the China Commemorative Medal (China-Denkmünze) in Steel for non-combatants in 1901. But don't forget, he was in China from 1933 to 1935, so it seems possible he received something from Chiang Kai-shek. 

Yes, I forgot that. It seems likely. I've only found one photo of him wearing all/most of his swag, and I can't get a clear enough enlargement to make out any detail. Considering his position with Chiang, it's hard to imagine he didn't get a few gongs.

I will. I doubt he did as his China medal was for a non combatant, awarded for staff work done in Germany.

OK, My re-created von Seeckt medal bar. You can see how easily the Hindenburg Cross medal ribbon can be mistaken for Iron Cross ribbon, especially in a black and white photo. 

16 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

My point was that the RAO4mS is a Schwerterdekoration, which outranks any civil grade on the bar. The RAO4mdK is of course a peacetime award and something completely different.

Yes, understood. My mistaken use of the Red Eagle description 'with swords', rather than 'with crown', following some replies using that erroneous term, when the medal had been correctly identified in the initial and preceding posts, was unfortunate. Clearly, the photos show the crown and no swords.

24 minutes ago, Glenn J said:

Just to clarify, Generaloberst von Seeckt did NOT receive an RAO4X, he had the RAO4Kr (i,e, with crown).  The crown  was awarded to his already held RAO4 on 13 September 1911. He was awarded the China commemorative medal in STEEL as an Hauptmann in the general staff of XVII. Armee-Korps on 19 December 1901.

 

Regards

Glenn

GlennJ: Yes, thank you. I originally described it properly in the first post. I went off track and wrote 'swords' when I meant 'crown'.  Thank you for confirming the details of the non-combatant China Denkmünze.  So the medal bar shown in the original post is:

1. Iron cross (1914) 2nd class

2. 'Hindenburg Cross' of 1934

3. Red Eagle 4th class with crown, w/o swords

4. Crown Order 3rd Class w/o swords

5. Prussian officer's 25 year long service cross

6. China medal, steel, for non-combatants

7. Centenary Medal.

I still find it an interesting detail that he appears to have worn the slip-on style shoulder boards, a personal preference apparently.

Thanks to all who have contributed. If anyone still disagrees with these identifications, I hope they will post and provide some supporting information.

2 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

I don't get your point, an RAO4mS would have been listed with precedence in that list.

It is. It's the second award listed after the PLM with oak leaves, and before the Crown Order 3rd class

NOTE: The Red Eagle 4th is with Crown, w/o swords.

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

There you go, no such award for China.

I understand that not all campaign awards are listed in the Rangeliste.

On 30/11/2023 at 18:30, VtwinVince said:

Someone must have a list of all his decorations. I don't think he got the RAO4mS for China.

Probably not. I have a rangeliste for 1930 (?), I'll try to post. I have no idea what he got the RAO4mS for. All I can deduce is that an identification of the medals on the bar in the photo above show the 1934 Hindenburg Cross in an unusual placement and the China Medal, presumably for non-combatants, likely for some work he performed as a General Staff officer during or preceding the Boxer Rebellion.

NOTE: The Red Eagle 4th is with Crown, w/o swords as mentioned above, and clarified in subsequent posts.

1 hour ago, P.F. said:

Seems he only mounted his Prussian decorations.

 

The second medal is possibly the Red Eagle Order 4th Class with Swords (on same ribbon as the Iron Cross).

The Red Eagle 4th with crown, is the 3rd position medal, in front of the Crown Order 3rd. 

Also, no German states awards on the bar, which supports the HK medal in the #2 spot. Since that medal was only issued in 1934, he wore it only two years, until his death at the end of 1936.

Also note the China Medal appears on a 1925 (attributed) photo on a 6 medal bar. Assume this was for work done when he was on the General Staff (appointed 1897) for the 1901 Boxer Rebellion effort. Have not seen any mention of this in online references.

This medal bar, only 7 medals but two conundrums. Very interesting to me. 

No comments on the slip on shoulder boards he seems to have favored on his uniform tunics.

1 hour ago, pinpon590 said:

 

Mmmmm... It seems being mounted on black / white ribbon... No ?

 

 

Yes, but depending on the folding of the ribbon, the 'Hindenburg Cross' ribbon could also look the same. Until someone can provide better evidence, that's what it looks like.