Leutwein

Many thanks Karsten!

Best,

Nick

Thanks to Daniel

Here you will find a nice discussion:

http://h1797427.stratoserver.net/public_html/wbb3/board3-3/board50-fotodokumente-fotoalben/42147-afrikaveteran-mit-reichlich-orden/#post254902

Best wishes

Karsten

Thanks a lot for showing that impressive mini chain.

Best wishes

Karsten

It´s Rittmeister Wrzodeck who was member of the "Masurische Train-Abteilung Nr. 20" (1914). He had KO4x and PK

Best wishes

Karsten

Thanks a lot for those nice infos.

Thanks again.

Best wishes

Karsten

Wow thanks a lot. What a wonderful and fast research, thanks a lot for your help. So it is Wilhelm von Veltheim...

.....one more photo with a name

Best wishes

Karsten

Hello,

I will post this naval officer with an interesting combination (Braunschweig and Württemberg). In my opinion this combination must be rare and with the Johanniter, we have to search someone of nobility. But by now, I couldn´t find any match with this combination and I´m going crazy

The naval officer is wearing on his medal bar:

RAO4

DA XXV

China-Denkm. (in my opinion for fighters but steel were also possible)

WF3a

BrH3a/b

I hope someone of you can put a name to this nice photo. Thanks a lot for looking.

Best wishes

Karsten

Hello and thanks a lot for your reply. Is there any chance to find out something about his WW1-decorations (dates of award)?

Best wishes

Karsten

Hello,

after a long absence (sorry for that ) I´m now looking for informations of Stabsveterinär Ernst Laubis.

He was born 1878 (Lundström, Krause: Hohenzollern: 1914-1947) and received for his duty in German-Southwestafrica (1904-1908 ) the following decorations:

KO4Xw

WF3b

1916 he received "Ehrenkreuz 3.X von Hohenzollern" (Look: Krause: Nicht-württ. Auszeichnungen an Wtbg 1914-1918 ) but when did he received the swords to his WF3b ?? Did he survived the war?? Did he received other decorations during WW1?? And in which untis did he served, during WW1 ??

Thanks a lot for your help.

Best wishes

Karsten

Excellent medal bar......any chance of a close up to compare with the 1914 varient ?

indeed nice but....

...this one can not be a colonial type because the FAM was instituted in 1905. The veterans of the Boxer Rebellion were normally awarded with the SAEZx.

The first awards of the FAM were for the Herero-and Hottentotten-Rebellion in German-Southwestafrica (1904-1908).

Best wishes

Karsten

Hello,

on this excellent website you will finde the different manufacturer of the FAM

http://www.sachsens-orden.de.vu/

Have fun =)

@VtwinVine

Would be nice to see your colonial-saxon-bar

Best wishes

Karsten

Hi Karsten, here we are......both I would treat as copys?

Thanks a lot but I need a better scan of the backside so that I can recognize good the individual letters of the lettering, for example.

I hope it is possible.

Why should it be a copy? I´m not a FAM-Expert

Best wishes

Karsten

In my opinion it would be an nice project, and none of the medals are super rare.

Regards,

Matthew

Sorry but that´s wrong. The FAM should be a colonial one and this type is super rare!!!

Hello,

nice bar but is it possible to receive better pics of the front- and backside of the FAM ?

Best wishes

Karsten

I'm sorry but any speculations are out of place for me! What counts for me are facts .....

Point 1:

Quote: "ECs and ribboned medals are often not on studio photos, but pinbacks were mostly a case of "wear em if you have em ...""

I have many photos which prove the opposite. In particular, the EK was worn almost always. And therefore it is seen in photographs (almost) always.

Point 2:

So far, only 4 women are known, which have received the Iron Cross and 2 of them have carried it. This at least shows that the women have worn with pride the Iron Cross.

Furthermore comes on top following completion rate, which must be considered.

Quote: "After the withdrawal, the women were allowed to keep the medal, had to return the tapes, however, the crosses were allowed to wear them in focus as jewelry brooch."

(source: http://hriesop.beepworld.de/militaer.htm)

This in turn proves more that the women were proud of their lent EK and wanted to show this. Why else the permission to wear the cross as jewelry brooch .....

I conclude on the basis of the 2 secured original photos that women have worn their Iron Cross with pride and not just the ribbon.
Perhaps to highlight from the other mass ceremonies (Massenverleihungen! Don´t know the english word) like the Red Cross medal.

Furthermore, the question arises as to why those women (Sophie Gräfin zu Toerring-Jettenbach and Lonny Hertha von Versen) wear no further awards ....
I could imagine that they might have received one or the other Red Cross award.

Yet it is disconcerting that 2 secured original photos show the EK and 2 speculative objects doesn`t show it but could also show winners of the Iron Cross. Makes no sense for me first!

point 3

Why is only the talk of the EK and TWM?
What about, for example, the Red Cross Medal?

The ribbon of the Red Cross Medal may also resemble a ribbon of the EK!

point 4

Once we leave the position in mind. What would be at issue here? General Decoration or Military Decoration 2nd Class on the non-combattant's ribbon (with only 64 awards)? Theoretically, you could even consider both , especially if this medal would be at the first and not at the second position. (In this case definitely the AEZ!)

What I want to say ....

In such cases, can only help the name or the piece comes from a closed but secure estate. Everything else is just pure speculation.

Best wishes

Karsten

Hello George,

why do you exclude a military person?

1894/95 began the "Togo-Expedition" under von Gruner and von Carnap-Quernheimb. This expedition had the goal to open up the back-country of Togo. Can´t imagine that some functionaries have participated there. May be after his military service he could change to the administration.

Another point:

Colonial soldiers received also the AEZ for their retirement.

I´m still not at home....

...so my question: Did (colonial) functionaries also receive the Centenary-medal??

Best wishes

Karsten

I will post the backside for those who were happy to see a picture of v.Raben...

....with the original autogramm of v.Raben

Would be nice to see some more items in this awesome thread.

Best wishes

Karsten

Hello George,

that´s a difficult question! I have never seen this type of battle clasp. It looks very different to those known clasps.....

...for example the lettering and the grain size. BUT I have also never seen fakes of that type!

So if it would be a fake, there would be some more exemplars of that type. So the battle clasp could be really a 1920's or 1930´s clasp BUT

the medal bar should be, in my opinion, a pre-war-/ pre-1914-medal-bar!

Also questionable for me is the combination of Togo-battle-clasp and a portuguese decoration....

...this combination could be possible but it is strange for me! Around Togo was no portuguese colony. There were french, british and spanish colonies but no portuguese colony, so how could he get a portuguese decoration? For example a German-Eastafrica-battle-clasp (with Portuguese-Eastafrica) or a German-Southwest-Africa-battle-clasp (with Angola) would make more sense. As I said it is strange but perhaps not possible. But if someone of Togo (for example a Polizeimeister) received a portuguese decoration....

...COULD (I´m not sure!) be the medal-bar identifiable!

Best wishes

Karsten

For me it looks like a bar of a paymaster of the navy. Any other opinions?

The combination is possible but I´m not able to garantize the decorations itself. For example the oldenburger peacetime-decoration...

But the bar looks....

Best wishes

Karsten

close up of his lovely ribbon bar

Best wishes

Karsten

That is an GREAT group of document, photo and medal barrrr.....wait...did the medal bar loose it's battle bar that is shown on the photo?

Strange, he served in WWI (HK w/Swords) but they didn't give him any other decorations until 1934. Not even the war help medal.

Hello,

sorry for that misunderstanding but this is not a group! Only single items... so nobody did loose his battle clasp

Strange but not so strange because not every front-fighter received decorations....

But many colonial veterans weren´t front-fighters in WW1, because many of them weren´t capable for the front-service (jail-fever, malaria, blackwater-fever and so on).

Another nice pic with a lovely ribbon bar. Nice to see those miniatures battle clasps for the colonial medal. Did someone recognize him?....

...it is the famous defender of Mora Major Ernst von Raben The picture was taken 1921, three years before his death.

Nice curriculum vitae of v.Rabe with another nice picture of him:

http://de.wikipedia....Ernst_von_Raben

(in german, unfortunately)

and this nice medal bar. The owner received the colonial-medal most likely (in connection with the GSWA-Medal) for his actions in GSWA 1903/04.

Best wishes

Karsten

a very nice topic

Here my little contribution

At first the certificate for this nice medal. Gefreiter Biermann received also 1899 the MEZ2 (!) for his actions in GSWA 1898. Those certificates are rarer to find in comparison with those for the German-Southwestafria- or China- Medal, unfortunately.

And a nice Photo with the colonial medal in wear.

Very interesting.

Hope you can wait.....

because now I´m far away of my sources and will come back home in october.

Best wishes

very interesting! Why are you looking for them, if I can ask....

...do you have some items of the post guys?

Unfortunately I do not have any photo of those.

Best wishes

Karsten

I think that after the Iron Cross comes the hanseatic cross of Hamburg.....

....and after the saxon DA comes the red eagle order and the danish order. Because after "Roth" Nieper didn´t receive any more peace time decorations....

Furthermore it is more possible (in my opinion!) that the hanseatic cross of Hamburg is not mentioned in any sources instead of any peace time awards (like a swedish or montenegrin Order!).

Best wishes

Karsten

and an enlisted man who served also in China during the boxer-war...

Best wishes

Karsten