DarthZealous

Does anyone know the size, as in the dimensions, of Japanese honorific certificates, namely those of the higher honours such as the Order Chrysanthemum, either certificate for the collar or cordon?

@BlackcowboyBS this is great news! A much under-studied subject matter. I find the Order of St George particularly interesting. 

How and where are people able to purchase your works?

This may be a subject others have posted about, but I could not find any in a search, but does anyone have any information what Tirpitz never received a baton, despite being a Grand Admiral? Or did he in fact receive one?

In 'Mythos Marschallstab' it lists Tirpitz as a Grand Admiral, naturally, but doesn't show a baton. In the book by Osprey, 'The Kaiser's Warlords: German Commanders of World War I', it depicts a drawing of Tirpitz holding a Grand Admiral's baton, but I have never seen a photographic image of him hold one.

Does anyone have any information on this? Cheers.

Definitely from the myriad, and often internecine, phalanx of false orders of St John out there.

You can tell by the poor quality of the workmanship and the lack of heraldic symbols between the arms of the cross, although that latter point is not always a uniform feature of the false orders.

On 27/08/2020 at 07:08, Komtur said:

He is wearing a Domherrenkreuz.

And indeed he was Domherr von Naumburg.

 

That is great it has been identified. Ive also been asking in various groups for years.

Many thanks to Komtur

Thank you Prem! You are quite right. Turns out she received the Rising Sun in 2003, and the Paulownia Flowers in 2010. 

Does anyone know who this Japanese lady is who received the Order of the Paulownia Flowers? 

Until I saw this, I was not aware women in Japan were eligible for honours except the Orders of Culture, of the Precious Crown and of the Scared Treasure.

This was new one on me, albeit a pleasant surprise, but does anyone know anything about the baton seen in the image here being born at the funeral of the Italian Marshal Luigi Cadorna?

I have never seen an Italian Marshal's baton - or what appears to be one - before , although I have seen similar batons in Royal Savoy portraiture of monarchs from the 19th century, where I had taken them to be sceptres rather than military batons. 

I presume it is a Marshal's baton, given its design and the fact is bears Savoy crosses. 

Bearing in mind that I had never seen any such officer of rank carrying one, I was wondering if it was merely a presentation piece rather than an baton?

Does anyone know any English language websites that sell parts for these wonderful presentation frames, specifically the parts like the Mon or patterned mounting?

12 hours ago, JapanX said:

Unfortunately the quality of image is too low (at least for me) to read the inscriptions.

 

Here are closer visuals, in higher-res, for you JapanX

1 minute ago, JapanX said:

It's impossible to say with certainty with existing photos

Yup. I agree completely.

23 minutes ago, JapanX said:

This is of course just a hypothesis and I didn`t see half collars either.

So it is quite possible that the photo was doctored.

I appreciate that JapanX

Further to any of that, I cant help but wonder if the Machukuo Collar of the Order of the Orchid Blossom also has a ‘clip’ or ‘pin’ given the Order’s Japanese antecedents, and whether the clips were Orchid Blossom crests. Alas this image of the Kangde Emperor offers no clues. 

Well I’m more than willing to await tangible evidence of a half collar, despite never having seen any thus far.

23 minutes ago, JapanX said:

Take a good look at the epollet. 

Studio or no studio - there is only one link. So they doctored the epollet too?  

 

With all due respect this isn’t an adversarial debate, and I would hope that we both can discuss rather than debate this.

I stand by my analysis however, and the epaulette would not be “doctored” per se, but rather the rest of the collar medallion removed and shown in what would be the natural state or contour of the epaulette, had it not a collar on it. I note there are patches of blackness on the epaulette in the image you provided, and that could, maybe, represent part of the design on that section of the collar medallion.

I have never seen a Chrysanthemum half collar, and I don’t know of any other Order in history where a half collar is utilised.

47 minutes ago, JapanX said:

You better take a look at this photo.

Only half of the collar.

So they could start using clips becase of this 

Interesting. I can’t help but notice that that image looks like the old ‘studio portraits’ where they used to cut the image of the sitter out along the edges and place that image on a plain background and then print or copy the new image again, in which case they would have cut of the collar medallions and links, which would have appeared at a bit of an angle in the original portrait. It would be odd, or so I think, to remove half a collar just for a portrait. I don’t know of any chivalric insignia precedent for that across any honours system for removing half a collar.

The image in the book suggests that the clips were used on whole collars. 

This is all a rather fun mystery.

9 hours ago, JapanX said:

Could be ...

I am just delighted that I got this book and found out this small, but seemingly unknown - from a western point of view - detail about the collar gradeof the Chrysanthemum.

37 minutes ago, JapanX said:

Thanks! 

Nice book indeed. 

He wore it both ways  

Yes indeed re Togo, but I have a theory that the pins were a later Edict whereby the collar was to be worn above the epaulettes, hence needing the pins, whereas previously the collar could be worn and fastened under the epaulettes.  I note the Admiral in the image I posted looks older than he did in the image you posted, which would fit with a later decision to require the collar worn above the epaulettes. Just a theory, mind.

18 hours ago, JapanX said:

Yes, of course centimetres.

 

JapanX, you dont know where I can find a hi-res image of the grand cordon presentation warrant, do you? 

I happened to find this photo of the General during a visit to Berlin, where he can be clearly seen wearing his honour.

Just had a closer look at the below image, and it would seem that Admiral Togo is wearing the clips also, so it would seem it is not just Japanese sovereigns who wear them. 

I dont know the name of the book as I dont read, or speak, Japanese, alas. Here is a better scan of the page, and the cover of the book. 

Thank you JapanX, much appreciated info

MM(Millimetres) or CM(centimetres)? 

Could someone inform me what the previews size of the presentation warrant certificates are? Specifically for the Order of the Chrysanthemum?!

With thanks in advance.

Just received a new book on Japanese Orders, and as the image below shows there were clips that could be worn, in the design of the Imperial Mon, to be used to keep the Collar of the Chrysanthemum securely fastened over the epaulettes. I cant help but wonder if these clips are merely for the Emperor, as I cant seem to find any images of anyone else wearing them except the Showa Emperor (below) and also the Taisho Emperor. I noticed others who wear the collar have them secured under the epaulettes, as shown below with Yamagata, Ōyama and Togo (below).

I am sure others may have read this before, but I didnt see anything in the forum, and wondered if anyone knows much about them? If not just for the Sovereign, did they come with the collar? Were they a later part of required attire or just optional extra?