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    Rogi

    Past Contributor
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    Posts posted by Rogi

    1. Gentlemen,

      This is all very nice, but the photograph shows Danilo III class, not II class as quoted in Register!

      ​In the register I see his name listed under the Danilo III listing right above 2 officers of lesser rank that also received the Danilo IIIrd class,

      the Danilo II listing is separated by a semicolon, unless this means something different in Austro-Hungarian at the time, my understanding is that the semicolon (;) separates items in a list (in this case Danilo II and Danilo III) since the list itself has numerous commas in it.

       

      You can see the same division from the Danilo III class and Danilo 4th class in the list, after the semicolon, highest ranking officer is listed, then proceeding to lower ranked officers, and finally indicating that they were awarded the Order of Danilo 4th Class.

       

    2. Thanks to everyone for the detailed answers , but does someone knows how many of those kind awarded to the people or Royal Families ???

      ​All the records for orders and medals for Serbia/Yugoslavia were destroyed in the German bombings of April 1941, a bomb hit the chancellery of orders and that was that, no more records of recipients, producers etc. No one knows how many of these beautiful pieces are in existence.

    3. Looking at it again, the ribbon certainly looks of some age, the problem with these pieces is generally (although not always) they are not marked in anyway and unfortunately many of the buyers of these sort of pieces are not particularly knowledgeable and rely on 'so called' experts who make quite a decent cut. The trouble is if one of them, for what ever reason, decides they don't like a piece, whether it is genuine or not, then the others tend to follow sheep like and the piece is condemned for eternity. Certainly a provenance, preferably documented would be of great help (and better images).

      Paul

       

       

       

      ​Is there a similar piece we can compare it to at least? The photos aren't that great, but it would be nice to see similar non-Christian variants and compare their features.

    4. I'm not sure how they made these variants, but I don't like the image of the central eagle, most that I've seen have a nice relief that reflects the eagle  on them, the eagle itself isn't covered with a glass cover, they pop out at you, I've yet to see one that has a "glass" cover over the eagle (as this variant seems to have).

       

      The pictures aren't the greatest as Paul has suggested as well.

      Has it been tested for gold content or diamonds evaluated?

    5. I've seen a couple of the Soviet Legions of Merit (in museums and in some private collections) although I havn't been fortunate enough to stumble upon any lists of these orders to who they were awarded to etc.

      The citation on most of these that I've seen comes on a much nicer and decorated onion skin (it appears thicker in quality to the usual onion skin citation) paper.

    6. ​Hi Rogi,

      I think what we believe should based on the facts. Besides the reasons I mentioned above, another indirect reason makes me believe it is original is changing serial number from 6 digi to 5 digi doesn't make the price of a suspension type Red Banner increase much higher.

      People generally make fake Gold Star, 2nd screw post Red Banner and top Soviet military orders, because the original ones are pricey. I only know two or three low serial number suspension type Red Banner exist. I don't think people would put such effort on forging a suspension type Red Banner which only worth hundreds of USD.

      Spartan

      ​You would be surprised what people fake and why, people generally don't fake Seiko watches either, but the fakes are available and unusual ones of these pieces (different dial color that is claimed as an original piece, sometimes claim higher prices on auction websites) You mentioned yourself that you paid a expensive amount of money that is higher than usual for this type of Red Banner.

       There is a possibility that it is either,  you can't say for sure and claim it is legitimate, and neither can we say this is a forgery as everyone only assumes to a certain amount. That is why I mentioned it is probably from all experiences good, although the number is edited, can we prove where it came from, no?The number itself is good from all accounts. But then again, it has been edited, Either option remains on the table.

      Without some actual proof, you can't say outright that it is a good or bad piece, just as you mentioned and as an example, if the 6 digit's serial came back with bad/non-existent/cable man research, that is reason enough to a forger to have it changed to an early 5 digit research, or even to change it to 5 digit because it makes the order more appealing, which the price paid although seems small in USD, is a lot of money in other countries.

      It could also be a 6 digit converted down to 5 digit by veteran, because the veteran didn't want people to know who originally was the recipient of the order. (looking back, Paul suggested this as well)

      and as was previously suggested, this also could be converted elsewhere (factory, etc. ) there is too much of a "what if" that we could generally and fully say that the piece is legitimate, or not legitimate and not enough proof/facts out there to rule this piece in, or out. As long as  you are happy with it, then that is it, it is a possible legit piece that may render very interesting research and hopefully one day this "mystery" of the serial number may be solved.

       

    7. It depends, if you have faith in the number, as was mentioned previously it is a good hand at the serial number, then it is whatever the buyer believes to be true in a sense and if it won't leave your collection no matter what (true or fake) then who cares, enjoy the order for what it is.

      There are similar cases with any type of hand engraving, it is neither unlikely that it could be legit, or could be a well done forgery, either option remains on the table :)

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