Jump to content

Christian1962

Active Contributor
  • Posts

    132
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Posts posted by Christian1962

  1. 26 minutes ago, Elmar Lang said:

    I see that Gf. Hoyos was also wearer of the "Franz Josef Kreuz", also known as "Militantibus a Latere Meo", something not common to see...

    He was a long time Aide de Camp of Franz Joseph. Therefore he received the Franz Josef Kreuz. I accidentially met a Countess Hoyos last week and she told me it is said that he was one of the first to see Kronprinz Rudolf after his suicide in Mayerling.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  2. I think, I could provide some infos too:

    01.11.1878 Leutnant i.d.Res. (DR 3)

    01.11.1889 Oberleutnant (DR 14)

    01.05.1897 Rittmeister (DR 14)

    01.05.1908 Major (DR 14)

    01.05.1912 Oberstleutnant (DR 14)

    01.11.1914 Oberst [70] (DR 14)

    01.05.1918 Generalmajor with rank from 14.06.1918

    Here a link to Austrian States Archives: https://www.archivinformationssystem.at/detail.aspx?ID=76043

    Regards

    Christian

  3. Hello,

     

    foreign orders were just listed in "Haus-, Hof- und Staatshandbuch". Here is a copy from the 1914 issue which should display all decorations bestowed until 1913:

     

    grafik.thumb.png.5ea48e149407844238c4d7d705a2ee11.png

     

    I could find some more in the 1916 issue:

     

    grafik.png.9bc1985304061d0a8bd6b382a7364067.png

     

    Here follows the link: https://alex.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/alex?aid=shb&datum=1916&size=45&page=61

     

    and I can add his last list of Austrian decorations - effective with March 1918:

     

    grafik.png.d039fe5bdcf22a905fa8489c5dc17781.png

     

    Link: https://library.hungaricana.hu/en/view/RanglistenHeeres_1918/?pg=59&layout=s&query=Hoyos

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  4. 4 hours ago, Glenn J said:

     

    Hi Christian,

     

    I found another source that in fact I have had for years: Ruhestands-Schematismus der Österreichisch-Ungarischen Armee für 1914. Although only retired officers are listed, it does indeed list foreign orders.

     

    Regards

    Glenn

     

    RuheSchem.JPG.35eb66f4b95caea8bb43567fa44fe046.JPG

    Dear Glenn,

     

    you are right with Ruhestandsschematismus. Because of the fact that I don´t own any of them and they are not available online, they are not on my screen.

     

    Thank you for your post.

     

    Kindest

     

    Christian

  5. 3 hours ago, Ian said:

    Gentlemen, This has confused me for some time and a search on the internet and in this forum has, so far, failed to provide me with a satisfactory answer. 

    For what reason(s) would a peace time MVK 3. be issued on the war ribbon?

     

    MVK 3..jpg

    The MVK was introduced in 1849 and it was instituted with the "war" ribbon even for peacetime and wartime service.

     

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/e/e6/Statuten_f%C3%BCr_das_Milit%C3%A4r-Verdienstkreuz_der_k.k._Armee._Wien%2C_am_24._Oktober_1849._Franz_Graf_Gyulai._Feldmarschall-Leutnant_und_Kriegsminister._8.jpg

     

    The war decoration was instituted in 1860 and the ribbon was still the same for both. There was never another ribbon for the imperial MVK.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  6. 1 hour ago, tifes said:

    It looks like good, privately purchased piece with dedication to me, certainly not awarded, but fine one. On the reverse "Gut Land" (wish for a pilot for his save return) but I can´t decipher "F" word before 1916. Sorry, maybe somebody else...

    I read "Feneteör" which makes not really sense. I could not find a similar name or place.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  7. 1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

     

    That is not a small piece of ribbon!  It is the right side of a Red Cross Ehrenzeichen ribbon! 

     

    The ÖKM.X ribbon is covering the left side of the Red Cross ribbon. 

     

     

    Yes, you are right. Same as EK12/13 is covering the JK1908.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

     

    1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

     

     

     

     

     

     

    2 hours ago, Nicolas7507 said:

    Thank you very much for the clarification and the additional info! 

     

    Pfeffer sounds like a very good match. Did he receive a Pr. EK2 or MEZ?

     

    Regarding the Tyrol/Red cross ribbon: I just cannot make out any green colour. I tried making a better photo, please have a look. 

     

    Best regards

    Nicolas

    IMG_7706.jpg

     

    The Tyrolian ribbon was a nonsense - sorry. It´s clear that it´s red cross WW1.

     

    The problem is that the Schematismus is not very accurate. But there is missing too much. This is the reason why I am not happy with the match "Pfeffer".

     

    It is possible that our guy did not serve in Bundesheer because he was dismissed in 1919/20 and called back to duty in 1938 as E-officer. He would have owned a 25-years service cross otherwise. So he would not be listed in any Schematismus. Hard to find.

     

    It will remain an enigma....

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

     

  8. 4 hours ago, Nicolas7507 said:

    Thank you very much for the info, Christian!

     

    Any chances the decoration at the end is an öster. Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um die Republik? Probably unlikely, as the bar is post-1938, I guess.

     

    Best regards

    Nicolas

    Nicolas,

     

    wearing of republican Austrian orders (note: Ehrenzeichen/Verdienstorden) was strictly forbidden in TR, just war medal 1914 - 18 and long service crosses could be worn.

    I am not sure about red cross decorations but that´s not very relevant because the were extreme sparly awarded to Bundesheer officers.

     

    If someone would have worn a republic order on his ribbon bar against regulars then he would not have done thos on last position. Thet would not make any sense.

     

    The ribbon would not match and grade of the Ehrenzeichen/Verdienstorden. Rosettes were not in use. Italian Order of the Crown is the best and most plausible match. Germand red cross Ehrenzeichen would have had a miniature cross instead of a rosette.

     

    The bar is post march 1938 - Wehrmacht and not Bundesheer style.

     

    I could find a Militärzeugverwalter Johann Pfeffer who became Wehrmachtbeamter in 1938. He owned:

     

    Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille am Bande des Militärverdienstkreuzes

    Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille.X

    Goldenes Verdienstkreuz mit der Krone.X

    Karl-Truppenkreuz

    Ehrenzeichen 2. Kl. vom Roten Kreuz.KD

    Österr. Kriegserinnerungsmedaille 1914-18.X

    Jubiläumskreuz 1908

    Ritterkreuz des ital. Kronenordens

    ungar. Kriegsmedaille

     

    This is the best match but not 100 %. There would be missing one TK-ribbon and a second sword device.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

    Thi

    2 hours ago, Triad08 said:

    Hello.  The 8th WIDE ribbon is an imperial Austrian Red Cross Honor Cross, not the Tirol Commemorative.  This Red Cross ribbon has a very narrow Austrian War Commemorative ribbon wrapped around its left side.  And considering the candidate has a wartime FJO-Knight, he was probably a military surgeon.  This information about the candidate's medical background might help the search effort. 

     

    Last ribbon: Either the Italian Crown Order Officer's Cross or the Ehrenzeichen vom Roten Kreuz (Officer) of the Austrian First Republic is the last narrow ribbon wrapped around the right side of the Hungarian ribbon.  I realize, the thin white margins are not present on the ribbon for the First Republic Red Cross award, but why would an Italian Crown Order Officer's Cross be mounted in the very last position?   Regards.

     

    Yes, an Italien Orden would have been on last position anyway. I would not bet my collection on a red cross ribbon.

     

    My problem is this small piece of ribbon between ÖKM.X and JK1908:

     

    grafik.png.10f192574b00ab56945ee6488f42d28a.png

     

    I would think it´s the Tyrolian commemorative medal 1914-18. An Austrian red cross decoration from WW1 would be before ÖKM.X and not after. But the Tyrol medal makes no difference here because they were not listed in ÖBH-Schematismus.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

     

     

    2 hours ago, Triad08 said:

     

     

     

     

     

     

  9. My first impression would be:

     

    EK2 1914

    Franz Joseph-Orden Ritterkreuz mit KD

    Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl. mit KD.X

    Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille am Bande des MVK

    Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille am Bandes des MVK

    Karl-Truppenkreuz

    Kriegsmedaille

    Österr. Kriegserinnerungsmedaille 1914-18.X

    Tiroler Landesdenkmünze (small ribbon along ÖKM.X)

    Jubiläumskreuz 1908

    Erinnerungskreuz 1912/13

    Ungarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille

    Offizierskreuz des italienischen Kronenordens

     

    I will try to find out candidates for that combination.

     

    The rarest decoration here would be the Italien Order of the Crown. I made a look through all recepients which are listed in ÖBH-Schematismus 1937, but no match at all. I am sure there were more awards after the print of this Schematismus in 1937. He could have received it during his Wehrmacht service too....

     

    I fear it will be hard to give this bar a name.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  10. 2 hours ago, Valter said:

    Great photo! It is post-1934, as I see Hindenburg cross after his combat awards and before peacetime decorations. What is the breast star with garter? Romanian?

    It should be the grand officers breaststar of the Royal Bulgarian Order of Military Merit with war decoration.

     

    Here a link: https://auctions.live-bidder.com/clients/rauch/en/sale/showLot/455/4410

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  11. Alexander Pappenheim is still listed as Oberlieutnant in Schematismus 1848. There was no Schematismus 1849. In Schematismus 1850 he is listed as "Erster Rittmeister" in DR 2. So we don´t know exactly when he was promoted to Rittmeister.

    For me it sounds strange that he should have been portraied in 1847 as Rittmeister. I would assume that the stars were added later or that the pic is wrong dated?

    I think that the cockades were not changed as quick and were worn ahead. This will not be a distinctive hint in my opinion.

    Regards

    Christian

  12. FM Radetzky started in August 1848 introducing rank stars in his army. They were officially introduced with Reichsgesetzblatt 127/1848 and Erlass of Ministry of War dated with 14.02.1849 for all officers.

     

    Rank stars for NCO were introduced with Entschließung from 30.08.1849.

     

    Rank laces were introduced for Militär-Verpflegspersonal with 09.05.1848.

     

    I hope this informations will be sufficient for you.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

     

  13. 34 minutes ago, Elmar Lang said:

    Hello,

    to remain in theme, I would like to post a typical example of a "named" Metallenes Armeekreuz aka "Kanonenkreuz", this, named to the Feldmarschalleutnant (FML) Max Wimpffen.

     

    Best wishes,

     

    Enzo

     

     

    KanKrWimpffen 1.jpg

    KanKrWimpffen 2.jpg

    KanKrWimpffen 3.jpg

    KanKrWimpffen 4.jpg

    KanKrWimpffen 5.jpg

     

    Zounds! That´s a really good one. Exeptional piece - my congratulations.

     

    I just own a simply Lieutnant´s piece.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  14. I have tried to find out the correct precedence of k.u.k. orders with help of a friend who works in the Austrian State Archives. There was just a single sheet to find:

     

    grafik.thumb.png.e1267498298cf9b45e7bd2fe07f5a21f.png

     

    Another file would have been more interesting but it is missed. This special file was the reply of the Obersthofmeisteramt to Michetschläger when he asked for the precendence for his book.

     

    BUT: so we can assume that he published the correct precedence in his book on base of this reply!

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

     

  15. I have no evidence that ÖBH-Schematimen are oneline anwhere but I think I can help you researching in my own database. There are not so many officers with this combination of decorations as I assumed. Most of them had an EKO.3.X and/or an order of the Austrian Republic or the Prussian EK2. This narrows the candidates quite down:

     

    Oberstleutnant Franz Reicher (IR 5)

    grafik.png.eb0bd5878e782de84ee6e16183b891e0.png

     

    You must know that the Tyrolian War Medal 1914 - 1918 was not listed in Schematismus. And they were not very accurate with foreign medals such as the Hungarian war medal.

    Reicher is the best match for active officers between 1928 (first printed Schematismus) and 1937 (last printed). It is evident that there could have been retired officers who never were listed in a Schematismus.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

     

  16. 2 hours ago, Triad08 said:

     

    Hello to Enzo.  You are confident that the ribbon-bar under discussion features the Große Militärverdienstmedaille in the first position?  There were a total of nineteen - 19 - KuK-officers who received this award, (not counting 9 Germans and 1 Turk).  These officers were some of the most important and most renowned military leaders of the Empire.  Are you suggesting that the OP, by some serendipitous coincidence, ended-up with a ribbon-bar belonging to one of the famous military personalities listed below?  Regards. 

     

    Generaloberst Erzherzog Eugen

    Linienschiffsleutnant Gottfried Banfield

    Generaloberst Eduard Graf Paar

    Generaloberst Arthur Freiherr von Bolfras

    Generaloberst Karl Freiherr von Pflanzer-Baltin

    Generaloberst Svetozar Boroevic von Bojna

    Feldmarschall Erzherzog Friedrich

    Generaloberst Franz Freiherr Conrad von Hötzendorf

    Generaloberst Friedrich Freiherr von Georgi

    Generaloberst Samuel von Hazai

    Generaloberst Hermann Kövess von Kövessháza

    Generaloberst Eduard von Böhm-Ermolli

    Generaloberst Alexander Ritter von Krobatin

    Generaloberst Erzherzog Joseph

    General der Infanterie Arthur Freiherr Arz von Straussenburg

    General der Infanterie Alfred Krauss

    General der Kavallerie Alois Fürst Schönburg-Hartenstein

    Feldmarschall Franz Freiherr Rohr von Denta

    Oberstleutnant in Generalstab Hermann Pokorny

     

     

    I have checked out now all owners of GMVM.X.  No one of them owned a peacetime FJO of any grade.

     

    That fact should rule out the variant with GMVM.X on that bar we are discussing.

     

    But let´s make another experiment: let us assume the first ribbon stands for al GMVM.X which orders and medals could follow?

     

    Variant 1:

    GMVM.X

    LO-KmtK.X

    FJO-KmtK/St (peacetime) - which just was owned by FZM Tamásy (who held no GMVM.X)

    FJO-KmtK.X

    MVK.3.X

    KM 1873

    EK2

     

    Variant 2:

    GMVM.X

    LO-KmtK.X

    FJO-KmtK (peacetime) - which was not held by any GMVM-holder

    FJO-O.X

    MVK.3.X

     

    Variant:

    GMVM.X

    LO-R.X

    FJO-every grade (peacetime) - which was not held by any GMVM-holder

    ...

     

    All following variants are not worth discussing them.

     

    In my humble opinion that would rule out GMVM.X at this ribbon bar anyway. Therefore I would like to follow Triad´s argumentation.

     

    At the other hand, if we look onto the variant MVK.2.X and LO-R.X we find:

    Hugo Martiny

    Hugo Edler von Habermann

    Ernst Horsetzky von Hornthal

    Ferdinand Kosak

    Heinrich Goinger

    Gustav Szekély de Doba

    Gabriel Graf Marenzi

    Viktor Bauer von Bauernthal

    Karl von Stöhr

    Franz Weiss-Tihany-Mainprugg

    Karl Steiger

    Eugen Edler von Luxardo

    Ladislaus Jonik von Jamny

    Julius Phleps

    Josef Pacor von Karstenfels

    Paul Hegedüs

    Livius Borotha

    Georg Ritter von Szypniewski

    Viktor Edler von Kandler

    Johann Schwalb

    Dr. h.c. Eduard Fischer

    Balthasar Pintar

    Josef Freiherr von Janecka

    Johann Haas von Haagenfels

    Franz Graf Zedtwitz

    Oskar Minnich

    Heinrich Freiherr von Salis-Samaden

    Ludwig Rath

    Adolf Kornhaber von Pilis

    Franz Edler von Haam

    Alfred Edler von Hinke

    Johann Ritter von Mossig

    Rudolf Obauer von Bannerfeld

    Walter Schreitter von Schwarzfeld

    Ernest Edler von Terboglaw

    Ferencz Biffl von Pilca

     

    Now let´s have a look who out of this group owned a peacetime FJO-O/R:

    Dr. h.c. Eduard Fischer

    Paul Hegedüs

    Josef Pacor von Karstenfels

    Julius Phleps

    Johann Schwalb

    Walter Schreitter von Schwarzfeld

    Gustav Szekély de Doba

    Ernest Edler von Terboglaw

    Franz Graf Zedtwitz

     

    Now we exclude all who owned an EKO.3 because this is not on the bar, who will reach the next level:

    Johann Schwalb

    Walter Schreitter von Schwarzfeld

    Ernest Edler von Terboglaw

     

    And now we look who out the last three officers owned to more decorations with swords and in addition KM 1873 and EK2:

    Ernest Edler von Terboglaw

     

    Again in my humble opinion it´s a little bit more convincing.

     

    We could now discuss another variant:

    FJO-KmtK.X

    LO-R.X

    FJO-O/R (peacetime)

     

    But there is not one officer from colonel upwards who held that combination. Maybe there are some few from lieutnant-colonel downwards, but I can´t check that now.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

     

     

  17. 2 hours ago, Lukasz Gaszewski said:

    I absolutely agree. And you do not need to look far...

     

    387805239_Rangordnungk.u.k.Orden-GMVM.thumb.jpg.e38e22f04863b02480ec0b4c3b8de0c2.jpg

     

    Hermann Pokorny (already as a Hungarian general) with GMVM before the Order of Leopold.

     

    PokornyHerman1925.jpg.f6d8928a86e027cebe70cb3318dfcabc.jpg

    It´s no question that GMVM ranked before LO-K and LO-R but this not the point regarding the ribbon bar above because Pokorny owned EKO3.KD(X?) and not FJO (peacetime). That rules him out as owner anyway.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  18. I could find out one most likely candidate for that ribbon bar:

     

    Generalmajor Ernst von Terboglaw.

     

    He owned:

     

    MVK 2.X, LO-R.X, FJO-O, MVK.3.X, BMVM.X, KM, EK2.

     

    This would provide that he did not wear the full size peacetime FJO-O on his breast pocket but just on the ribbon bar.  The combination of MVK2.X, LO-R.X and a peacetime FJO (R or O) appears to be a real rare case. But in addition with MVK.3.X and BMVM.X, KM and EK2 it could be a single case!

     

    Here a potrait of him for comparison:

    https://picryl.com/media/gmernst-edler-vterboglaw-bcdf8b

     

    I could not find the variant FJO-K.X, LO-R.X, FJO (peacetime), MVK.3.X, BMVM.X, ... anyway.

     

    You can check it out  yourself there:

    Steiner Jörg, Schematismus der Generale und Obersten der k.u.k. Armee - Stand 31.12.1918.

    https://library.hungaricana.hu/en/view/Andere_Steiner_1992/?pg=0&layout=s

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

  19. There was a given precedence for k.u.k. orders and medals, but sometimes it was not followed by the makers of ribbon bars. Your can see this precedence in the "Personalverordnungsblatt für das k.u.k. Heer" (see below) where all awards during WW1 were published.

     

    They were ranked (following Michteschläger, see below):

    .

    .

    .

    Komturkreuz Leopold-Orden

    Militärverdienstkreuz 2. Kl.

    Orden der Eisernen Krone 2. Kl.

    Ritterkreuz Leopold-Orden

    Offizierskreuz Franz Joseph-Orden

    Orden der Eisernen Krone 3. Kl.

    Ritterkreuz Franz Joseph-Orden

    Goldene Tapferkeitsmedaille für Offiziere

    Silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille für Offiziere

    Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl.

    Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille am Bande des des Militärverdienstkreuzes

    Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille am Bande Militärverdienstkreuzes
    .

    .

    .

     

    Following this precedure the ribbon bar above should contain:

     

    Militärverdienstkreuz 2. Kl.

    Ritterkreuz Leopold-Orden

    Ritterkreuz Franz Joseph-Orden (peacetime)

    Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl. (most appearent, but could be Silberne MVM.X too)

    Bronzene MVM.X

    Kriegsmedaille

    Eisernes Kreuz 2. Kl.

     

    BUT: some weeks ago I could take a look on an estate of a k.u.k. Oberst and arty brigade commander. Here was the precedure different:

     

    Komturkreuz Franz Joseph Orden with swords

    Ritterkreuz Leopold-Orden

    Orden der Eisernen Krone 3. Kl.

    Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl.

    SMVM.X

    BMVM.X

    Karl-Truppenkreuz

     

    However, it is most likely that the above ribbon bar contains a commander Franz Joseph then a MVK 2. Kl. Otherwise in most cases there would be an Iron Crown 2. Cl. between them.

     

    Anyway both combinations would be very rare.

     

    Regards

     

    Christian

     

    Rangordnung k.u.k. Orden.jpg

    Personalverordnungsblatt 47-1918.JPG

×
×
  • Create New...