James Clark

This is part of the Eric Campion collection on display in the RAF Museum in Hendon, near London.

James

The third medal on this group is an unrecognisable blur but can anyone recognise the last award on this medal bar worn by a Wehrmacht Hauptmann? I see a six-pointed star with cutouts and a round centre-piece, with a flat onion-shaped crown above it.

Just for interest, here are the three that I have. On the first bar, the green ribbon was said to be for the Italian 1908 Messina Earthquake Medal, which is wrong as the ribbon for this is white with green stripes. If it really is Italian then it would likely be for the Order of Sts Maurice & Lazarus as Matt suggested. I don't have any information to help identify the other two.

The pairing of a Merit Award for the Eastern People (i.e. the award without swords) with the KVKII would be correct for a non-German. However, I think for this bar I'd tend more towards the Hungarian Merit award which isn't that uncommon for Germans with few other awards. I can think of examples I've seen on medal bars for a Luftwaffe Officer and another for a member of the Polizei who had also served in the Wehrmacht. Neither had particluarly long service (or long medal bars).

Hard to say, but I think the orange one might be the Order of Queen Maria and the one next to it the "Cross of Sanitary Merit" - both Romanian and both appropriate for a medic.

You know which ones are good and bad.

Tunesian ribbon is a mystery. I have one (middle of the 3 below) too.

NO idea what the sew on 4th pink and green is--- something either a) local fire department or b) very exotic foreign amazing unknown thing (For some reason, my old tired brain is yelling "Afghanistan 1920s!" at me for that one)

Blacklight the Danzig one. The tabs on that ribbon do not match the other three ribbons so it may have been replaced as an "improvement."

Last one-- yes, CIVIL Bavarian Jubilee of 1911. Always difficult to tell when gold swords were used even for bronze Bavarian Military Merit Crosses on 3rd Reich ribbon bars, but I think that IS a Bavarian Military Merit Cross 1st Class X there for a Feldwebelleutnant-- old ex soldier (long service might be BLD2) who was not on active military duty 1905 or 1911.

I have the green ribbon with red stripes down as being the Hungarian Cross of Merit. I think this makes sense on this bar but not on the first one in the thread.

I agree that the Danzig ribbon looks like it has been added on bar in question and that the alignment of the holes on the police ribbon bar is suspicious.

See also the seller sigmund_tangsi from China currently selling on e-bay: "We can also provide German Ribbon Bar customize service. Tell us what ribbon you need, we can produce what you want perfectly! No matter Rommel's or Donitz's ribbon bar, we can produce:)"

What i forget:

On the back there is a stamp with mm L/11 and on the top is a print with: "Nur vom Beliehenen zu ?ffnen", but the LDO-crosses were purchsed private from a dealer and were not awarded......

King Regards,

Oliver

I agree that this is significant. This is not an LDO packet so it's not clear why Deumer would stamp it with their LDO number. The EK1 could be bought in retail outlets in a paper packet rather than a case, but LDO packets had the LDO logo on the front and did not give the designation of the award they contained.

Thanks Gordon - that's very interesting.

James

Thanks for the steer everyone - he is Croatian. The collar tabs are for an army Zastavnik (Officer Cadet or Ensign). The larger insignia on the cap is the NDH cockade. I still don't know what the smaller badge is though.

regards,

James

The attached was described as being Ukrainian police from the WWII period. I'd be grateful for any information confirming the nationality and organisation and also anything on the rank. This is as clear as the detail gets - the detail on the cap insignia isn't any more visible on the original.

My references on this sort of organisation are a bit limited - are there any good ones (internet or books?)

Thanks,

James

I agree with Karynthian Cross for number 6. How about an Anschluss medal of 13 October 1938 for number 9?

Thanks for the extra picture. The perspective is different now, and the colour doesn't look quite so bright as in the first pictures. This version is more gold coloured than the normal bronze and the ones I've seen like this are also a little bit thinner than normal. I think that this is an accepted variant.

Regards,

James

Very good! I'd like to see the back of the Sudetenland medal (next to another one, if you have one) - the writing looks very big!

James

I know information about the LDO is far from complete but wondered what was known about the subject of licences awarded by the Pr?sidialkanzlei. We know that firms could be awarded a full licence (Vollkonzession) or a partial licence (Teilkonzession) to supply orders and decorations to the retail trade. What was the difference between a Vollkonzession and a Teilkonzession? And is it known which firms had which?

Isn't it unusual that he has the EK Spange on his chest and a buttonhole?

The EK1 Spange is worn on the chest, above the EK1. The EK2 Spange is worn at the buttonhole on the EK2 1914 ribbon. He could have chosen to put an EK2 Spange on the ribbon bar instead of wearing it at the buttonhole, although some recipients wore it on the ribbon bar and at the buttonhole. The EK1 Spange wasn't represented on the ribbon bar.

I thought this was an interesting array of awards.

- EK 1 and 2, Hohenzollern Honour Cross with Swords and 1914-18 wound badge in silver or gold. I don't know what the 4th ribbon is, before the 1914-18 Cross - it looks plain, light coloured and has swords attached. I think it's relatively unusual that, with this service, he doesn't have the Austrian, Hungarian or Bulgarian WW1 Commemorative medals.

- EK 1 and 2 1939 Spangen, KVK2 with Swords and infantry assault badge in WW2. What I found unusual here was that he left the armed forces after WW1 (no armed forces long service awards) and between the wars earned a 25-year loyal service award in state service. The final ribbon is unclear - possibly Westwall or Red Cross.

The number on his shoulder strap is 75 - if this is the 75th Infantry Regiment, then he may have earned his Spangen in the campaign against France.

Unfortunately, there is no writing or other helpful information on the back of the picture.

There was a Chinese seller with an add on e-bay offering to make up 3rd Reich bars. No pretence of selling them as original (or even using original ribbons/parts) but from the front they looked better than these. Thought I'd saved the item but it seems to be gone now and I didn't note the user id.

According to what I've read, 26,116 Spanish Crosses of all types (not including NOK medals) were awarded, and this lines up with the total number of LC volunteers involved in the war (1936-39). So I think the answer is yes - all LC members received a Spanish Cross of one type or another.

According to Doehle and others, the total number of Spanish Crosses awarded was 26,116. But the total with swords was only 17,920. To get the number for Legion Condor members you'd then have to subtract the number of Kriegsmarine personnel who qualified for the award with swords for participating in the actions at Ibiza, Almeria or Palma. I don't know how many that would amount to.

Goering addressed all the members of the Legion Condor on 31 May 1939 (quoted by Klietmann). Those present included members who had just returned from Spain and those who had served there previously. The address included the following information:

- all participants were to receive the cross in Bronze with swords

- those who had come into contact with the enemy and had fought and engaged in combat were to receive the cross in silver with swords

- those who had distinguished themselves through daring, courage and bravery were to receive the cross in gold with swords

- those who stood out above all others due to their particular deeds were to receive the cross in gold with swords and diamonds

This is all in line with the statute, which said that the award with swords would be awarded to the volunteers of the Legion Condor (and also to members of the Krigsmarine involved in three specified actions).

Finally, the statute also says that German civilian volunteers of the Legion Condor were to receive the award without swords (along with courier pilots, members of the Wehrmacht who served alongside the Legion Condor or with the Kriegsmarine in Spanish waters in the course of the regular duties, and German cilvilian officials).

None of this tell us who actually received the awards, but the intention to reward everyone who had been part of the Legion Condor is clear.

I'm sure this has been asked and explained before but if it was I didn't see it or I have forgotten so I'll ask again anyway...

Did every German volunteer in Legion Condor (who survived) receive some grade of the Spanish Cross?

Rich

There was a group either here or on another forum that shows it wasn't just those that survived - the group included a Spanish Cross to a casualty along with a Next of Kin cross to his relative.

I'd like to know more about the subject of picture 81, especially has foreign awards.

Nice Police set!

What does the reverse of the SS-VT 4 ribbon bar look like? I can't imagine what the blank long service in first place would be, but this sure looks good from the front. Yup, you've shown it correctly, so the tiny device is upside down-- and the wearer never even noticed!

Best guess for the plain blue ribbon would be an 8-year SS long service award without ribbon device mounted ahead of the 4-year long service award. Only one grade of the award was supposed to be worn but there was an example shown on another thread here with the 8-year and 4-year awards worn together, although on that one the 8-year ribbon had a miniature device on it.

...followed by the KVKII in 1943. I don't know if he got anything else.

Maybe also of interest for Rick: Johannes Heinrich Hermann Ott, 6. Landsturm-Pionier-Kompagnie, XIV Armee-Korps, Kriegsverdienstkreuz (Baden) in 1918...