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About oldlincolnian

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    military aviation badges, all eras, all nations, all disciplines

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  1. Hi


    Can you tell me what the design is of your relatives' 19th Hussars cap badge?  I am trying to date the various types and noted your post from 2011. 




  2. I can now add some additional information about some of these badges. First the small gold badge with the blue enamel centre, "The First Romanian Cosmonaut". This is a purely commemorative badge, was widely made and sold to honour Dimitru Prunariu. "Everyone had one".... Secondly my research with Romanian help has elecited that there were 5 first class and 5 second class Cosmonaut bages made and numbered, obviously 1 through 5. At the same time several more of the same batch were made but NOT NUMBERED. Badges from this original batch were made with a pin 3.5 cm long. On the 1st class badge the number of the badge was punched into the gold backing of the badge before the silver bird and gold state crest were attached. Rivets on the crest pass through the other two layers to hold the assembly togther. Likewise on the 2nd class badge the number of the badge was punched into the silver backing of the badge before the golden bird and enamelled state crest were attached. Rivets on the crest pass through the other two layers to hold the assembly togther.It would not be possible to add the punch number to the additional un-numbered badges without destroying the rivets on the crest and it seems unlikely that the additional un-numbered badges were ever intended for issue. They may have been used as presentation pieces to dignitaries. It should be noted however that the un-numbered original badges bore the same pin positioned so that it was possible for a number to be stamped. This is how one can identify the original un-numbered batch. I have not been able to track all the numbered badges down, but have discovered that most are in private collections in Romania. Only badges of both 1st class and 2nd class numbered 1 and 2 were assigned to individuals. The others were unused. However, there exist examples of both the first class and second class un-numbered badges which have much longer pins at the rear, with the fastening catch located behind the globe at the front, occupying the position where the number of a genuine item would have been. These later production, presumably souvenir items at best, or attempted copy/fakes, which changed hands expensively in the early 1990's, appear to be made from the same dies and may have been made in volume because die degredation is evident in areas on some of these badges and the fit and finish is not quite as precise as on the original numbered badges. With regard to 1st class badge #2 in my collection. It is the badge which would have been awarded to Dimitru Dediu had he flown. He was rated as a second class cosmonaut on completion of training but would have been upgraded to 1st class on return. Apparently Prunariu was awarded his first class badge #1 on return from the only mission flown by a Romanian communist era cosmonaut, which leads me to believe (though unconfirmed) that the 2nd class badge on dispay in Bucarest with Prunariu's 1st class badge is probaly 2nd class badge #1, as issued to Prunariu before launch, being the highest qualified in training. One assumes that Dediu retained his 2nd class badge #2 and as he never got to undertake a mission, was never awarded 1st class badge #2. I am unsure as to how exactly 1st class badge #2 escaped from Romania, but I am delighted to have brought it into my collection. It is certainly a beautiful piece.
  3. I recognise these items from the HACS show in Chilliwack a few weeks ago. I drove out from Vancouver to look at them after a friend sent me a quick photo. Sadly the lot was very disappointing. The dagger IS a fake and there are missing broken off bits. The top left wing is one which was brought in to use for a very short time after the fall of the communist regime, trying to emulatre the old wartime badge. It was a very poor effort and was quickly replaced by metal wings. Its value is in its scarcity now. The middle "wing" is a branch of service badge as discussed by others, basically it says "Hungarain military". The right hand wing is a 1942-45 air force pilot wing which was used in parralel with the wartime bullion wing, a handsome wing and valuable when complete, but a shame that its back was detached and it was glued onto the felt. The large round item is the uniform coat belt buckle. I had my doubts in my cursory look as to whether that too was genuine, but I am not sure on that score. The tie pin wing...not sure what that one was. The blue badge is a Hungarian state approved glider pilot qualification wing for class A,B and C qualification, a nice badge! There was also a Tasmanian Aeroclub badge with the lot and I tried to find out if the owner had been a member there but he had not, so i am not sure what the relevance of that was. The value here is in the three wings, the modern one, the wartime one and the glider badge . Had the condition been better and if the dagger had been genuine, not a broken copy, the price you paid would have been a bargain, without a doubt, but you probably got your money's worth
  4. Prunariu's badge #1 is lodged in the Romanian Military Aviation Museum in Bucurest, along with various other badges associated with his flight. His is the 1st class badge, gold with a silver eagle and the state crest in gold. Dediu's badge was the 2nd class badge (as above, silver with a gold eagle and the state crest in enamel as with other period air force pilot badges) I believe that Dediu's badge is also in the Museum, but I am not sure how it was numbered. the numbering is done on the rear of the badge, behind the ball the eagle rests on. I have first class badge #2, but it is not clear if this badge was also issued to Prunariu or was made in readyness in a series in preparation for a desired series of Romanian Cosmonauts. I believe that the latter is most likely, or that it was intended for Captain Cristian Guran, the third final selection for the program, who did not complete his Soviet training regime. A couple of items worthy of note. There is a website which claims to sell original items of original space memorabilia for very large sums of money. They appear to have an exact replica (at least on the surface) of the Prunariu set and presentation as it appears in the museum in Bucurest. I have also seen highly credible but un-numbered examples of both the first class and second class badges available for sale (albeit in very small numbers over the years) on Ebay and I am aware of un-numbered examples in a couple of private collections. (which probably came from those Ebay sales). I am only aware of numbered badges #1 and #2 in first class to exist. It is, I suppose, reasonable to presume that there was a small production run of these badges for the ROMANIAN SPACE PROGRAM, and it is I suppose reasonable to assume that after the Intercosmos program finished and eventually the Socialist Republic of Romania ceased to exist as such, that these genuine, period, small group of badges may have escaped into the collector market. I do not believe that they have ever been mass-produced. The Romanians are exceptionaly proud of their only Cosmonaut Prunariu!!
  5. Have you ever stood somewhere and felt all that has gone before on that spot, all the people who have occupied the space you now occupy? It is a most strange sensation and these images really bring that feeling alive.
  6. My Grandfather's brother, Alfred Langley was in the 19th Hussars and by 1909 was ranked Sergeant. He was born in 1883, so he may have joined the Hussars at the age of 17 or 18... ie about 1900, so making sergeant in 9 years was I suppose a sign of a good Hussar. He was a champion horseman and won first and second prize for riding and jumping at the British Military Tournament (two different horses) in 1909-10-11, as well as a special gold medal for "tent-pegging". By 1916 he was ranked Regimental Sergeant Major and transferred into the Wiltshire Regiment as a commissioned officer. He was a Captain, killed in action on 20th September 1917 at Hollebecke, Belgium taking a machine gun nest which was pinning down his men. (I have this from the Regimental war diary of the Wiltshires). I have not been able to find out a thing about his record with the 19th Hussars, except a reference to being at Canterbury from one of the Census listings. I have no idea about where he was with the Hussars or when, and have had no luck (searching from Canada) in finding a written history or where I can access the written history of the 19th Hussars from about 1900 to 1916. I have his Hussars cap badge and his Wiltshires cap badge (that is an amazing story unto itself!) and I have his BMT medals from 1909-10-11 and I have his Memorial Disk for those KIA, one photo of him riding (jumping actually) and one of him in uniform as a Wiltshire's Lt. I have visited the wall at Zonnebeke, Belgium, where his name is, though he has no known grave, and I have been able to tie down to within perhaps 30m where he was killed by cross referencing the Wiltshire's Regimental Diary to field maps made in the few days before his death and using Google Earth, which I am told is actually quite remarkable to have achieved. However the 19th Hussars side of his life, 16 good years roughly, remains a mystery to me, except these small momentos. If anyone knows where I may be able to find out about his movements and his military record, I would really appreciate knowing about it. Thanks
  7. I have seen various patches like this, screen printed, some in colour. They were usually supplied to SPORTS TEAMS representing the RAF and sewn onto shorts or shirts
  8. Clarification: they are now ONLY used for University Air Squadron trainee pilots and are a pre-qualification qualification, if you can follow that. They are not worn on any RAF uniform under any circumstances except UAS kit and cannot be worn on full uniform later if you don't qualify. It is my understanding that decades ago officer cadets were issued the Preliminary Flying Badge at EFS level but that is not so now.
  9. I am wondring if anyone knows how I may go about getting the roster of pilots on 65 Sqdn RAF from March of 1941 up to October 1941? I have a particular interest in one pilot, a Czech Sergeant pilot (Svatopluk Stulir) who was with the squadron at that time (killed late 1941) and it has become something of a challenge to find out the names of his squadron pals. I have a picture of them all lined up in front of a Spitfire at Kirton-in-Lindsey in 1941, but no ID's.... it would just be very interesting to know who was on the squadron and what may have become of them. I have no idea how to go about getting such info, or if anyone else may already have such a record, but I am located in Vancouver, so trips to RAF records are not going to happen anytime soon! Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give
  10. I have SEEN such an image some years ago on a forum of some sort when someone was asking about the ID of the Zeppelin company corporate badges.... the august answer was about how the corporate staff wore these military looking suits with big Z badges on the sleeve and a photo was offered which showed a couple of men in a balloon shed clearly wearing era style "uniforms" with Z badges.... The reason I didn't go further in my own description is that I do not recall which forum that was on or how to find it....but I know I saw it!
  11. seeking knowledge and understanding

  12. seeking knowledge and understanding

  13. I have found a way to get bigger and clearer pictures to you of the front and rear of this badge.... still have not figured out the GMIC uploader but try these..... and if you know anything about this badge, please email me!
  14. The Zeppelin enamel badge has a near identical black/silver Z on it. Its conjecture but this could be a Zeppelin company crewman?
  15. I have aquired two new badges which have apparently been together since the beginning of time. The first is a French metal pilot badge from 1916, #11708. The second is intriguing and it this I need help with. As can be seen from the attached images it represents a US eagle, holding a sheaf and a ribbon with a readable part of E Pluribus Unum. The shield carries only 5 stars, so it is somewhat stylised. The badge is die-cast so presumably several were made. From the rear it can be seen that it was at one time gilded, though no gilding remains on the front. The hinge to the rear is a European style hinge though the securing rod has obviously come out and a long fine tack exactly like those used to hold aircraft fabric to wooden frames has been inserted and bent over. I am assuming that these two badges have spent a long time together. I am wondering if it is possible that this small badge (approx 4.5 x 2.5 cm)was an adopted Squadron badge used by US flyers? I have reviewed Bartlett's book thoroughly and it is not to be found there, but there are many squadrons he was not able to confirm badges for and therefore did not illustrate. Also I have tried to make these images come under 35k each so I can get both in....you can see how small the first one is and still there is no room for the second one.... I am new here... can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? I'd love to show you the front too!! So, has anyone seen this badge before and can anyone tell me unequivocally how it may have been used? Thanks Chris oldlincolnian@wwdb.org
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