Mike McLellan

I've seen, from time to time, 2 different marks stamped on weapons from the Metropolitan Police. By far, the more common is the MP with a crown. This stamp was hammered on just about everything that wasn't nailed down. The other one, featuring a depiction of hands secured by handcuffs, and accompanied by the MP, shows up on Webley revolvers. I suspect that the former, more simple stamp was placed on police property by the Metropolitan Police, and that the more more colorful, latter depiction was stamped by Webley & Scott to identify a specific model, but I'm not certain about either. 

The existence of either stamp seemingly elevates the value of the gun, but the handcuff stamp seems much more valuable. Realistically, I would think that the gun marked by the Department would be more sought-after. Alas, I have not yet been in a position to afford either type, so I have to rely on others to lift the shroud of mystery with a closer examination. 

AMAZING!!!!!  What a breath-taking display. I know that it's wrong to be jealous, but I think that it's understandable in this case. Absolutely beautiful! Dave, I think that I need to go lay down for awhile. Mike. Wow.

Thanks for weighing in, Dave. Very helpful. Any chance you could post a couple of photos? I'd especially like to see the Cyphers for VR & EviiR. On some insignia, the cypher is easy to read; on others, a good deal of imagination is needed to de-cypher the cypher. Thanks again, Mike.

I've had these three Met horse badges in my collection for years now, and still am on the look-out for earlier examples. However, years ago, I was told, by a collector that I respect, that prior to the reign of George V, the martingale badge used by the Met did not have 'Metropolitan Police' written on them, but wore the Royal Motto, like so many military badges did (see example). I don't know what his source of information was, or how reliable it is. Is anyone out there able to confirm this information, or has anyone seen a martingale badge with both the wording, 'Metropolitan Police' as well as cyphers for VR or EviiR? It seems like somewhat of a waste of time to continue a search for something that doesn't exist, when I could spend the few hours I have left on Earth doing something worthwhile, like mowing the lawn or painting the bathroom. 

Collector, That is a beauty. There seem to be a lot tip staves out there, but very few of them hold any real interest to me, personally. As a prison officer with 25 years service, your tipstaff is one that I would call a "keeper". Very nice. Mike.

A shamrock! Of course! I've never seen that old badge before. There was a time (long ago) when I might have figured that out. Thanks for posting the image. Amazing. Mike.

That is a real beauty. I'm a little puzzled by the absence of the harp on the badge. What are those feather or leaf-like things? (Prince of Wales feathers?). I can't find anything in the Taylor / Wilkinson book that resembles it. At any rate, that's a beautiful piece. Mike. 

     Thank you Mervyn. As stated earlier, I picked this up with the hopes of trading it off for Met related items. Of course, living where I do, opportunities to swap insignia is pretty much nonexistent. I allowed my PICA-GB membership to lapse back in the early 1990s when my collecting interests began to get stale, but I'm considering requesting re-admission (if they'll have me!). Thanks for the information. 

    By the way Mervyn, thank you, as well, for the years of inspiration you have given me through your beautiful and informative book. When I bought it, you were kind enough to autograph it for me. Seems like a long time ago, doesn't it?

Thanks Gents! Lots of good information. I still have some doubts, but I'll concede that this thing might be the real McCoy. Zeb, here's the pics you asked about:

A point well taken. Their flag is testimony to that sentiment. Thanks again, Mike.

Thanks Trooper D. Interesting reading. I did consider a Colonial origin, but with no evidentiary support, any theory is just a guess. Australia seems a likely candidate, but I'm having trouble trying to imagine the Aussie keepers, of that era, getting all dressed up in near-formal attire, which this buckle would surely suggest. It's like renting a tuxedo to enter a hog-wrestling contest. Maybe I'm just over-thinking this, or simply not thinking. Thanks again, Mike.

Here's another notebook case. I think both of mine may be simply holders of assorted forms & documents. Your notebook, on the other hand, is a great bit of police history. Mike 

Oh, We Weren't? Sorry. But, as long as you're here; Has anybody ever her of "Her Majesty's Convict Department"? Among my smattering of HMP insignia is a No 1 Dress belt buckle. It's quite heavy, non magnetic, and of a suspicious yellow color that resembles brand-new brass. In fact, it appears way too new. No honest wear anyplace. It's kind of cool, but I fear it's as phony as a three dollar bill. It came to me about thirty years ago from a collector in England who made no claims whatever about its authenticity. It's well made and begs the question: why would anyone take the trouble to counterfeit something that doesn't exist? Any opinions would be welcome. Thanks, Mike.

A photo of a Met notebook case. Very soft, fine leather, originally stamped to D division / No. 65. Subsequently over-stamped to C division / No 110. The department generally got their money's worth out of its equipment. I have a more recent issue around here somewhere.

Since this thread has been resurrected, I may as well jump in. I haven't added any insignia to my collection since the late 1980s. My interests are only of the Met & COL. and you can imagine how hard it's been to find these things out on the frozen tundra! The Taylor/Wilkinson book, along with Mervyn's, have kept my collecting spirit alive, although It's been in the doldrums for quite some time.

This display contains my collection of Met & City insignia, as well as other things that are marginally related, such as the Civil Volunteer Force, the martingale badges, etc. Some of the things are spurious or questionable in authenticity, and the rank insignia is clumsily inaccurate. One of the plates is an outright fake! I know because I made it myself (EviiiR). Another plate is a curiosity that's been nagging me  since I got it. Its inclusion is simply as that; a curiosity. Anyway, it's far from complete, but my wife still allows it to hang in the living room! Cheers, Mike.

Thank's for your input, Mervyn! As always, your encyclopedic knowledge is astonishing. You asked for the stampings on the smaller rattle. Someone with a very heavy hand has stamped R 296 on the body. On the reverse side is the makers name and address and the word 'police'. Also, on the collapsible handle and above the R 296 we have the ubiquitous WD broad arrow. Under magnification, it appears that the crows-foot was stamped over the R, making it likely, I suppose, that the War Department snatched it up when it was surplussed out by the police agency. 

My apologies. I seem to have blundered my way out of the image. Moderators, please delete this thread.

If, while driving through Canada, you see this image in your rear-view mirror, try to be on your best behavior!

The attached greeting card / photo was given to me many years ago. It shows a whole bunch of coppers. I think everybody showed up for the picture, but I don't imagine everybody was smiling for the camera. No 'Porta-Potties' to be seen anywhere. Double click to enlarge.

     In his description of the shown rattle, the seller, from England, wasn't sure of its origin or what to call it. He wrote that it was quite load and perhaps it was used as a fire or police alarm or used to scare birds away. In fact, on the customs declaration, he wrote, "Bird Scarer".  It is very similar to the watchman's rattle shown in Mervyn Mitton's extraordinary book in several ways. An examination of it suggests, by the patina, tool marks. and fastening devices, that it is quite old. There is a hole in the body that approximates the location of the turning knob in Mervyn's book. I would like to believe that it is. in fact, an early rattle with a policing connection, and I'm leaning that way. It's pictured along side a Parker, Field ( 59 Leman St E) rattle in my small collection for comparison. 

   My question to the experts of this fine forum; Would I be justified in believing that this rattle is the "real deal", or should I face reality and take it outside and scare some birds way? Thanks for any comments, Mike.

    I think all of us have, in our collections, items that are of minimal monetary value, but are treasured by us none the less. Years ago, I was given a copy of the Police Orders for the funeral procession of Sir Winston Churchill. It included a map of the procession route as well as vouchers for the officer's meal and refreshments while he was on duty. I assume that pretty much everybody on the force was expected  to turn out for such an event, regardless of their normal shift assignments.

   Were snacks and the 'main meal' provided by caterers provided by the Department, or were the men expected to find a bite to eat as best he could? Logistics for such an event must have been a nightmare. I remember watching the whole thing on television, and such earthy concerns as food, drink, and bathroom breaks never occurred to me. 

I'm new here. Rod, that is a fantastic display. What a breath-taking collection! You've done exceedingly well putting it all together. Thanks for letting us share in your treasure-trove. Mike.

    I recently obtained a Parker, Field tipstaff at auction. I'll try to add pictures. It's (I think) silver-plated brass bearing the badge of Newcastle. The silver is almost completely worn, as is the gilding of the crown. The ivory (?) hand grip has a hair-line crack running its entire length. The tipstaff is engraved to T. WILSON, and the makers name and address is roll-marked in small print. I don't collect tipstaves, as such, but picked it up as "trading stock" for things that I'm interested in, namely, items of the Metropolitan Police. 

   If anyone has any information or opinions that they would like to share, I'd be a grateful student. Also, if anyone has something from the Met, of comparable value, please keep in in mind. 

   There is a Newcastle tipstaff in Mevyn's book that somewhat resembles mine. Thanks, Mike McLellan