Trajan
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Posts posted by Trajan
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On 6/29/2015 at 12:56, Adler 1 said:
The two producers on the blade is because one made the blade and the other assembled the bayonet. Looking at the stamps, it's most likely that Henckels made the blade because it appears the stamp is deeper and stamped before grinding the blade. The Frister & Rossman stamp appears to be stamped after grinding the blade and is less deep than the Henckels stamp. Also keeping in mind Henckels made knives and still does today, it would be unlikely that they wouldn't have produced the blade.
In theory, as the Frister stamp is on the left side of the bayonet, then they made the blade. and as the Henckels is on the right side, they finished the bayonet.
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.. In addition, although bayonets were at being ordered on a state-by-state basis at the start of the GW, after 2nd March 1915 the orders for all types of bayonets was centralized at Erfurt. I have a feeling that after that date all bayonets were given a 'W' for Prussia spine mark whoever used them - but I am away from home and can't check my books, so don't quote me on that just yet! But, if that is the case, then this could well have been made early 1915.
Well, I was wrong on that one - Bavarian and Saxon ones dated after 1916 still have the respective King's monograms...
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Thanks for the information. Uni. term has started and so I don't know when and if I can get any further with this man - but I'll keep you posted!
Trajan
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Hello Trajan & Hoss
Delayed reply to some points. Yes, its was Carter that wrote about the Bavarian's not wanting EB1s.
Trajan - I too have a list of unit markings on Imperial Bayonets - its now has over 6000 entries.
Regarding EB1 I have 29 recorded unit marks. Of these, 16 are Saxon and remaining Prussian. Eight of the Saxon markings are to IR102 and two to IR103 (interestingly markings for IR103 are only on the scabbard suggesting that their armourer decided to just do half the job) and two to the 1. Saxon (12th) Fieldartillerie Reg. The numbering to IR102 suggests that they issued EB1 to every soldier in the Regiment so it might be that the Saxon's decided to equip all their infantry and artillery with EB1 - hence why we see so many. Definitely, different armourers had different practices during wartime for marking weapons with most not bothering. See my recent book on the S14 bayonet for more on this http://www.imperial-german-bayonets.net and also correct info on who they were issued to.
Best wishes to all
Allan
Thanks for that information! So, over 6,000 unit markings? That's a fair few! Perhaps at some point we ought to swap details! I have the S.14 book and have greatly enjoyed it, thanks.
Trajan
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Somewhat off-topic, but the Roman army used thin sheets of wood (not bark, though) for official records and soldiers used them for private correspondence... Nothing new under the sun!
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Just to see if anyone had any further ideas on this?
Just to add for starters that it would be nice to know what spine mark and maker mark you have there? I would guess W/16, and the maker 'DEUTSCHE MASCHINENFABRIK' - but they did not always date their blades...
Any marks on the scabbard finial? These are sometimes found on S.84/98 scabbards.
My money would go on 1.P.S.35, using a reversed 2 for the S, and so Pionier Battl. 1, 2 Schweinwurferzug, Waffe 35 - but that's only because the field pioneers were normally equipped with the S.98/05 and a kife-bayonet would be of more use to a searchlight crew.
As for the uneven-sized marks, I have an 84/98 n.A marked 'FLZ 1036', and the style and size matches what you have. Some of the early-war period unit-markings did not always match what the regulations demanded...
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The 'lanyard' is a Schützenabzeichnung, indicating he is a sharpshooter. I think the one acorn on the end indicates 1st level.
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The Deutsche Schutz-Division had something similar, a sword against a oak-leaf wreath. It was very short-lived, so this could be a commorative pin made after they were formed into the Reichswehr Brigade 25 in 1920?
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Another step with this one - friends in Sweden and Holland have tied down the chap in the next grave (on the right) - probably Gefreiter Franz Biell, buried at Vouziers, block 3, grave 445 (= next to Sensenbrenner, in grave 446). It is probable that the grave on the left, name unreadable in the photograph, could be that of the next person to Sensenbrenner in grave 447 in the Vouziers cemetery, Fahrer Johann Picket, died 17.10.1917.
As for Alb.Sensenbrenner, he is listed - as Johann - on the war memorial at his home town of Meissenheim
I have been able to get this far feeding bits of what is on the original photograph to others, and now see that the original poster, Rick Research is no longer alive. I would appreciate it if one of the moderators could direct me to who can give permission to copy this photograph to help further discussion on this man and (more importantly) offer a correction to the entry in the VdK (German War Graves Commission), who list Sensenbrenner simply as 'Johann', and also send it to them for inclusion in their files in case a family member wishes to search these.
Trajan
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I have been trying to track down this burial with the help of friends on another forum, and all that they have come up with is Grenadier Johann Sensenbrenner who died 12th October 1917, buried at Vouziers, block 3, grave 446...
The coincidence in service title (Grenadier) and DoD, along with the rarity of the name Sensenbrunner, makes it likely that he is the same man, and that his given name was Johann and his common name was Albrecht...
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"N" stamp
Never noticed one of those marks before - now I will have to search through my collection! Turkey received over 100,000 Waffenfabrik S.98/05's in 1917, and almost all of them (in my experience) are marked W/17 on the blade spine. They are by far the most common German bayonet to find in Turkey and Syria, which is why I have so many of the damn things - 10 at the last count... In fact, the reason I started collecting bayonets was simply that I found a 'relic' condition example of one of these near Palmyra about seven years back, and after a couple of years decided to find out exactly what it was!
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Who is the maker please? Like to know for a list I am keeping... Or is it on the Colonial Uniforms / Bayonets web? I'll check that later!
TIA, Trajan
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Anyone else have any Officer verein stuff?
No, but they did put their mark -"DEUTSCHER / OFFIZIER-VEREIN / BERLIN" on some 98/05 bayonets, which are though to be 'Eiguntumswaffe', and I would not mind finding one of those...
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Thank you Paul C!!
Thank you Trajan. I found a website with info on the uniform - http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/ulan.htm , which shows what the uniform may have looked like.
Where did you find the info on the various regiments, and their colours? Also, do you have any idea what the chain type thing is that is located above his right hand (holding the cigar)??
No ideas as to the chain, I am afraid... The colours are to be found in the various editions of the Moritz Ruhl guide to uniforms, of which the 1899 version is on-line at: http://verlustlisten.blogspot.com.tr/2013/09/die-uniformen-der-deutschen-armee.html
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The AS 71 was actually made with blades from the FS60 (Füselier Seitengewehr 1860) but there was also a new production of blades... So, it's possible to find dates from 1860 and up...
Adler 1
Thanks - one more piece of information to add to the data bank!
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Last week I bought this German S98 nA 2nd Model "feather" parade bayonet from a generalist collector. I unsure if its WW1 or pre WW1 - I read the leather sheath were in use up till 1915 so it may be WW1. The bayonet measures 66,7cm, without sheath 65,5cm. There's no makers mark on the bayonet or any other markings, on the leather sheath is stamped the number - 101. Any further information appreciated
Regards
I also have a S.98/n.A 'quillback' bayonet that has no markings at all - except for a number '4' on the inside edge of the push button, the same number being found written in pencil on the inside of the grips. I did wonder if mine was one of those made for Peru in 1909 that somehow escaped being sent there: if it was Peruvian then there would be a Peruvian State mark on the end of the pommel (and a number on the frog stud), so it might be worth checking the pommel to make certain that there wasn't one there which has later been removed. Mine cerainly isn't Peruvian, but nor does it have - like yours - a makers mark, or a spine mark, or any 'fraktur' marks on the various components (e.g., the screws). I have done a lot of asking around about my example, and most bayonet people think it is just a simple anomaly, possibly intended for German use or even for the Peruvians - and perhaps one that escaped the marking process because it was a trial sample.
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That is a fascinating photograph! Hitherto the only S.71 I have seen in WW1 photographs were being worn or carried by Landsturm of Landwehr men, usually far from the front, guarding railway bridges, and so on. But here we have at least two being worn by an active-service unit in 1916 or later...
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And indeed a German chart of tactical symbols does seemingly give the answer = Funkenstation! See: http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/tactica symbols.htm
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On possibility worth exploring might be to get a modern reproduction and see if that can be used. Soldiers of Fortune have these... Let me know if it works, if you do this, as I need one also!
Hi Guys,can anyone tell me where I can get a replacement release catch for a WW1 butcher bayonet? Any help would be much appreciated.
On possibility worth exploring might be to get a modern reproduction and see if that can be used. Soldiers of Fortune have these... Let me know if it works, if you do this, as I need one also!
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HV could be for Heeresverwaltung... Army administration - but KuK or Prussian? It would be good to see the whole object...
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Thanks - I was working from memory - slap wrists and remind myself not to do so again... Of course the Bavarian cockade never had a solid centre...
Incidentally though, I have noticed that in photographs, Baravian cockades often / always seem that little bit larger than the national cockades and when Bavarians are shown with men from other States, those of the Bavarians again also look larger than the other state cockades, which is the case with the what you show in the post above. I have never really looked into it - but is that really the case? Are they just that little bit larger than everybody elses?
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During the period that this type of unofficial sleeve patch was worn, the shoulder strap number would reflect the pioneer unit that the MWA came from. So, this would not be the 4th Bavarian Schwere Minenwerfer-Abteilung. If there was an Abteilung number at all, it was normally shown on the sleeve patch. Later in 1915, when the new Minenwerfer shoulder strap was introduced, the unit number was displayed on them and the sleeve patches were dropped.
Thanks for the correction - will bear that in mind. I am not too hot on unifoms and badges and its always good to learn
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The first image shows two German privates of the 1st Regiment, Deutche ?stliche Asiatiche Brigade. Both men wear what may be the German medal for the Boxer Rebellion. Both men are armed with the Mauser K-98 rifle.
I think that's the Prussian centennial medal. I believe that the China medal had a striped ribbon and these are plain...
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I would assume that he is in IR40. Odd that he would have a Reichsrevolver. Those were normally carried by artillery and other rear echelon troops. Looks like an Ausmarsch photo.
It is a studio photograph, and I have seen several of these showing men with the wrong rifles and / or bayonets, and so evidently studio 'props', I suspect that the revolver here may be just such a 'prop' to make our administrator look a tad more martial...
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Trench daggers and fighting knives...
in Germany: Imperial Uniforms, Headwear, Insignia & Personal Equipment
Posted
I like the fixable knife but I don't like the marking - sorry! I am no expert but all the DEMAG ones I have seen are marked in the usual German fashion, that is horizontally to the mouth of the scabbard, not vertically. Also, the lettering and numbers used here are all the wrong size and the marking itself is not the regular official format. And what is the marking supposed to mean? If the "B" is for Bavaria, then there was no 8th Bavarian Jaeger unit, apart from which this would also be the first ever known example of an EB 01 in Bavarian service - the majority of unit-marked ones are for Saxon units.
Sorry to be a downer... Yes, it could be an irregular unofficial marking, but to what unit?
Trajan