Stuart Bates

Swine! We had better confine this stuff to emails or PMs :shame:

When I first saw the post it had http://www.servicepub.com/images/32 etc. Which I tried without success but which subsequently became the photo! I don't know :banger:

Clive, when attempt that link for the jpeg I get Wikipedia on Hypertext http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_Transfer_Protocol. when I go to your home page and then append images/32 etc I get Error 404 page not found. Is the link correct and/or how does one get to images from the home page? Stuart

I didn't know that Clive, but it makes good sense.

William, further to the 4 vs. 6 seams on the FSH, the Dress Regulations 1883, 1891, 1894 and 1900 all specify 6 seams. Of course, these regulations are for officers but I doubt that ORs would be different in this respect. Stuart

I forgot to add that the 1874 DRs specify silver for Militia officers helmet plates etc.

I never begrudge, well rarely, dealers making a profit. If they don't then they won't be there next time we want them. I check Alan Beadle's site often and he has a "Zulu War" OR's helmet and it has been there a long time. Why they automatically state that a helmet is Zulu war or Boer war is annoying. Especially Zulu, as it would have to have rather good provenance to make that claim stick. Having said that a dealer/friend over in Perth, Western Australia, knows Alan and says that he is one of the trustworthy ones. And yes, Paget's Horse is by Hamburger Rogers & Sons. The only one I have from that manufacturer I think. Can you recommend a good book on Paget's Horse? Stuart

William, love the helmets, especially the South Lancs. one. I have a Blue Cloth to the South Lancashire Regiment. You talk about 4 seam helmets and covers. Now I know that covers came in 4 and 6 seams (pieces) but I was always unsure about a Foreign Service Helmet with only 4. The Home Service Helmet always had 4 but I thought the FSH always had 6. The American version had 4 and I have seen illustrations showing a British FSH with 4 but put that down to the artist's interpretation. You seem to know about this so any additional information? Stuart

1st West Yorkshire Yeomanry post 1871 -

A change of tack - Clive I think you prefer metal helmets, right? This one to the South Salopian Yeomanry pre-1881

An example to the Royal Sussex -

You Canadians have forced me into it so here are a few more - plenty more to come but... A rather nice cap to the Army Medical Staff Corps or the Royal Army medical Corps (1898).

Clive, if I adopted you then Afghanistan would be out! Thanks, Brian. I am in a buying mood but not much out there at the moment. Stuart

And a Royal Scots Fusiliers' -

A Royal Artillery Pillbox -

OK, some more forage caps. This one is a Royal Engineers'

According to the Regimental Museum the Devons had a metal pagri badge consisting of a 2" circlet with the word DEVONSHIRE surrounding the Castle of Exeter and the motto Semper Fidelis, all in brass. However, a 1927 photograph of the 2nd Battalion returning from Aden, shows a circular rosette made from ribbon of the WWI Croix de Guerre colours of green and red. But these flashes apply to the two regular battalions and I don't know whether they extended to hostilities only ones. Stuart

Patrick, you are more than welcome to visit the collection if you make it to Melbourne (actually about 1 hour 30 minutes out of Melbourne). Stuart

Hi William, I bought the Paget's Horse from Chris Berry in London in late 2008. I hate to think of what you got for it when you sold as opposed to what I paid for it. Pity you have no headgear left as I am always interested. I don't suppose that you have photos of the other two you mention. I would love to see them either as a posting or via email. Have you seen my thread in Collectors Corner? BTW: welcome to the forum. I am sure that you will enjoy being a member. Cheers, Stuart

I have 20 Blue Cloth Helmets with 1 line infantry, 1 Royal Engineers and 2 Artillery volunteers examples. These all either have an extra scroll saying Volunteer to the relevant unit and/or have a blank/laurel leaf scroll instead of Ubique in the case of Engineers and Artillery. I don’t remember ever having seen a Militia Line Infantry Blue Cloth or its helmet plate. The 1883 Dress Regulations state that for Militia “Uniform and horse furniture as for Line Battalions” so I guess the helmet plates were gilt/brass. The 1900 Dress Regulations, for the Royal Artillery, state that the letter “M” on the helmet plate was used in the Militia Artillery but only mention the letter “M” on Shoulder Cords or Shoulder Straps for Line Infantry and Engineers. K & K only take the BC helmet plate for Militia up to 1881! From this we can conclude that the plates were identical - Line Infantry to Militia. Volunteers still being in silver/white metal with the battalion identified on an extra scroll. The question, after all of this, is did Militia and/or Volunteer battalions of the Gloucesters wear the back badge on their Blue Cloth helmets? Stuart

I started this thread because I was unsure whether the 2nd Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment (61st Regiment of Foot) were entitled to wear the back badge of the 1st Battalion (the old 28th Regiment of Foot). And for that matter, Militia and/or Volunteer battalions. After a bit more reading I have concluded that indeed both battalions wore a modified version of the 28th Regiment's on amalgamation in 1881. The 1874 Dress Regulations gives the 28th as the Sphinx and the 61st Sphinx over Egypt for the helmet plate but no mention of a back badge. Another reference book states that on amalgamation the back badge for the regiment became a Sphinx over Egypt. That is a combination of both previous regiments' badges (although with the 61st coming out on top with Egypt below). The 1883 Dress Regulations specifies the back badge for the Gloucestershire Regiment with no mention of battalions. This brought me to wonder whether Militia and Volunteer battalions were entitled to wear the back badge. I should say at this point that a friend bought a Gloucestershire Regiment Blue Cloth which did not only not have a back badge but had never had one fitted. I will continue the Militia part in the next post. Here is a photo taken in Portsmouth, 1912, of officers of the 1st Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment with its Colonel, Major General Sir Francis Howard, looking very unsoldierly with a fag hanging out of his mouth. Photo courtesy of the Soldiers of Gloucestershire Museum.

This is a Wolseley to an Aide-de-Camp. Inside are the remains of a paper label which had the name of the owner but which has been torn out. The storage/transit tin which came with it has had the brass owner's name plate removed. I guess that the family did not want to be known when selling it. However, the seller will let me have the details when a relative of the ADC dies. A bit much in this day and age I think. Note the graduated chinchain. I have never seen this on a Wolseley before but I have on a Colonial pattern helmet. Note also the red over white swan feather plume which indicates either an ADC or a Military Secretary. General and Staff officers had a white over red plume.

Speaking of Cavalry/Yeomanry shakos I bought this one years ago from Blunderbuss. They didn't know what unit it belongs to and I haven't been able to ID it either. Haven't thought about it for a long time so will have to try again. Anyone any ideas?

An 1855 pattern shako to the 9th Regiment of Foot. I don't much care for infantry shakos except for the bell top but some of the cavalry/yeomanry ones are superb.