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Kriegsmarine Admiral

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Posts posted by Kriegsmarine Admiral

  1. I agree, but look at this other photo of Lietzmann below. The Breast Star is clearly the Grand Cross of the Spanish Order of Naval Merit in my opinion. It has the wider and bigger points then the #1 on the photo above (which is supposed to be the 3rd Class of the Spanish Order of Naval Merit, and not the Grand Cross given it's smaller size, compare the points of the star).

    And the size of #3 Breast Star (and the points) is identical to the Breast Star on this photo below.

    Joachim Lietzmann (4).jpg

  2. On 23/01/2018 at 12:25, JapanX said:

    As far as I remember he was awarded with 3rd class

    As for the Kleindekoration in the form of the sun - this is unofficial add-on.

    Hello JapanX, thanks for your reply. Do you have any source for this claim (that Lietzmann was awarded the 3rd class)?

    I am still trying to confirm if he was awarded the 3rd (Commander) or 2nd (Grand Officer) Class. Lots of people suggested these 2 classes, one person even said it is the 4th class. I want to confirm the exact class. Is it possible to confirm the exact class just from the ribbon bar?

    Many thanks

  3. Hello,

    Lietzmann can be seen wearing 3 Breast Stars on the photo. The one below the Iron Cross 1st Class (marked with #2) is the Breast Star of the Croatian Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir 1st Class with Star and Oak Leaves.
    The one right of the Iron Cross 1st Class (marked with #1) is the Spanish Order of Naval Merit (possibly the 3rd class that had a smaller breast star than the 4th class (Grand Cross)). Is this correct?
    The Breast Star on his right side of the chest (marked with #3) is unknown. I think it could also be the Spanish Order of Naval Merit, but this time the 4th class (Grand Cross) that had a bigger Breast Star than the 3rd Class. Can anyone confirm this? Or is it a different award?
    The curious thing is why would he wear both classes of the same award (Spanish Order of Naval Merit) and not just the highest class, i.e. the Grand Cross?

    Lietzmann's ribbon bar also suggests he was awarded the Spanish Order of Military Merit, but the exact class is unknown. Could one of the Breast Stars be that award?

    Lietzmann, Joachim - Vizeadmiral King Zvonimir Crown2.jpg

  4. On 03/03/2019 at 21:22, Gordon Craig said:


    Yes I do.  It was Lot 631 sold on 5 December, 2018.  It is an unattributed medal bar.  I was able to obtain a list of all of the staff at the German Embassy in London at the time of the coronation but no one on the list seemed to fit this bar.  In an article in the OMSA Journal Vol. 34 March 1983 page 12 it says the following "In May 1937 Admiral Raeder appointed Admiral Schultze the Navy's special Representative to the coronation of King George VI of England".  Admiral Schultze probably had a staff with him as well but I have not been able to find out who was on his staff for the coronation.  The German Foreign office directed me to a series of books that might list who attended George the VIth coronation as part of the German contingent but I do not have any means of accessing those books at this time.  I didn't bid on this bar because I had never come across a foreign bar with a British coronation medal on it before.  Your thread is of real interest to me as you have this great list of foreign medals bars that include British coronation medals.  I can not post a picture of this bar to this thread as DNW doesn't let me download pictures to my PC.




    Do you know if Admiral Otto Schultze was awarded the George VI Coronation Medal?

    By the way, here is Konteradmiral Erwin Waßner's medal bar. I believe today it resides in a museum in Den Haag in the Netherlands (where he died).

    This photo also confirms the last medal on his medal bar on the black and white photo is indeed the 1935 King George V Silver Jubilee Medal like I assumed.


  5. 21 minutes ago, Antonio Prieto said:

    For this Order, the denominations vary according to the years
    1936—1970                   1970-1977
    Grand Cross                  Grand Cross
    3rd class cross             1st class cross
    2nd class cross            2nd class cross
    1st class cross             3rd class cross
    Silver cross                   4th class cross
    For this periods the crosses of 2nd and 3rd class have the same size, approximately 65-70 mm
    The 2nd class wear the silver bottom, arms, rectangles, crown, castles and lions in silver.
    The 3rd Class (after 1st) carry the gold background, arms, rectangles and gold crown; Castles and lions in silver.

    Grand Cross is the sash badge plus the 3rd class (or 1st class) plaque

    So the Grand Cross, 3rd Class and 2nd Class all had the Breast Stars (1936-1970 period)?

  6. Thank you guys. I thought it could be the 3rd Class because the Breast Star seems smaller than the Breast Star of the Grand Cross Class. But I guess it's the Grand Cross because of the sash?

    To my knowledge, the Grand Cross had the Golden Breast Star, the 3rd Class also a Golden Breast Star (but smaller size than the Grand Cross) and the 2nd Class had the Silver Breast Star.

    Or did I understand it wrong?

    The link Antonio posted shows that only the Grand Cross and the 3rd Class had the Breast Stars. What about the 2nd Class?

  7. 6 minutes ago, 922F said:

    Grand Cross has a gold star body and Grand Officer a silver star body-- cannot determine color for this one.

    I thought the Grand Cross and Grand Officer have a golden star and the Commander the silver star?

    I would say Kolbe is wearing the breast star of the Grand Officer class.
    Firstly, the sash of the Grand Cross is missing. And we can see he is wearing his parade uniform because it's most likely a state visit to Portugal.
    Secondly, the english wiki (I know wikipedia is not always reliable) says: "Colonels, Brigadiers, Navy Captains and Rear Admirals: Grand Officer" which would fit with Kolbe's rank on the photo (Konteradmiral=Rear Admiral).

  8. Hello, I have a couple of questions about Raeder's pre-WW2 awards.

    1. I found two different award dates for his "Ritterkreuz des Königlich Preußischen Hausordens von Hohenzollern mit Schwertern": 03 June 1916 and 05 June 1916. Which is the correct award date?

    2. On the list of his awards I have, the Königlich Bulgarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille is listed twice. First as "Königlich Bulgarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille" with the date 20 November 1917. Second as "Königlich Bulgarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille mit Schwertern" with the date 30 November 1937. To my knowledge the "Bulgarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille 1915/1918" was established in 1933, that would fit with Raeder's award listed with the date 1937. But, what is the medal listed in 1917 then? Does anyone know of a similar named Bulgarian award from WW1?

    3. Does anyone have any kind of proof that Raeder received the "Eichenlaub zur Wehrmacht-Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse" for 40 years service? He was in active service for 40 years by 1934.

    4. Was Raeder ever awarded the "Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Roten Kreuzes"? If yes, when and which class?

    5. Was he awarded the "Österreichische Kriegs-Erinnerungs-Medaille mit Schwertern"?


  9. Thank you Dave!

    Is it possible the last 2 round medals could be any of these 3: ?

    - Österreichische Kriegs-Erinnerungs-Medaille
    - Königlich Ungarische Weltkriegs-Erinnerungsmedaille 
    - Königlich Bulgarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille 1915/1918

    And it would seem he didn't mount his Osmanje-Orden IV. Klasse on this photo?

  10. On 21/02/2019 at 15:02, Dave Danner said:

    Hintzmann did not have the Centenary Medal. He was in the Crew of 1897, entering service in April 1897, too late for the Centenary Medal which was awarded on 22 April 1897.

    The first three ribbons, as you guessed, are the EK2, HOH3X and MMV2. The last two are the Red Eagle with the barely visible Crown device and the Osmanieh. You're right that the foreign award is last. War awards precede peacetime awards, so the ribbon before the Red Eagle with swords is his Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer.

    That leaves the two ribbons between the Mecklenburg award and the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer.  They are war awards but are not in the 1918 rank list, so they must have been awarded after that list was published. Most likely, based on their appearance, they are the Hesse Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen "Für Tapferkeit" and the Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz, but I cannot say for certain. 

    Dave, I managed to find this photo of Hintzmann on which he is wearing his medal bar. I know it's not the best quality, but are you perhaps able to ID the medals? Or at least confirm the Hesse Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen "Für Tapferkeit" and the Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz by looking at the position of the medals. Also, see if there are any additional awards, for example the last two round medals?

    Also, the MMV1 is confirmed by this photo.


  11. Hello, does anyone have the Army Rangliste from the period of WW1?

    I'm trying to find out WW1 awards of later Ministerialdirigent Dipl.Ing. Ludwig Cordes.

    In his bio it says he was in War Service (21 Jun 1915-30 Dec 1918), but it doesn't specify in which branch of the Armed Forces.

    He is not listed in the Navy Rangliste, so I guess he was in the army.

    He was a native of Oldenburg, if that helps.

    Here is his bio: http://www.oocities.org/~orion47/WEHRMACHT/KRIEGSMARINE/Konteradmirals/CORDES_LUDWIG.html


  12. On 06/03/2019 at 05:17, 922F said:

    The apparent cross arm size and placement may suggest Zvonimir and the piece seems to be white enamel.  However,  I do not see the stylized twist design on cross arms Zvonimir badges display and the center seems too large [extends to edge of cross arm divergence].    Further, Matthew mentioned the cross arm taper which does not conform to Zvonimir format.

    Did von Trotha have a Bulgarian connection?  Size of the center, cross arm taper, apparent sword blade between cross arms plus glint shape in center reminds me of Bulgarian Military Bravery Order 3rd class, lst grade. 

    No known Bulgarian connections. 

    So you don't think it's the War Merit Cross 1st Class with Swords?

    I can't see it being the Zvonimir Order. But that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong.

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