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    922F

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    Everything posted by 922F

    1. Extraordinary!! Very nice--next you will have their medal groups, swords and daggers!!! Congratulations!!!
    2. saschaw--I too remember seeing von Trotha's bar & ribbon on a militaria website somewhere, maybe 2-3 years ago. I do not have the coordinates but hope someone else has them and will post them if the site is still available. Another lesson to save, bookmark or PRINT OUT material!
    3. Gentlemen, Some insignia possibly pre-1899 has the inscription ORDRE DE ?TOILE D'ANJOUAN COMORES. This opinion is based on insignia with old ribbon attached to dated award documents, so may not be conclusive. It is not clear from any French references I am familiar with whether these are statutory or varient insignia. Ed probably correctly makes a point in that most all insignia identifiable as post 1890 has the wording ORDRE ROYAL DE ?TOILE D'ANJOUAN COMORES to indicate the order's 'new' colonial status. Besides usual contemporary 'official' references and bestowal documents, manufacturer catalogs use this style. The Republic of the Comores reinstituted/reactivated this Order some years after instituting the Order of the Green Crescent. Apparently, the first Republican insignia used was the same as the colonial order i.e. with inscription ORDRE ROYAL DE ?TOILE D'ANJOUAN COMORES. Later issues have the inscription ORDRE DE ?TOILE D'ANJOUAN COMORES. This type is now on sale at various Parisian shops. I 'm traveling now but will post more specific info when I return home--maybe 3-6 weeks. Ed Emering may have posted some info regarding this change on his site. There may be more on French websites dealing with the subject too.
    4. James-- The collar/badge between King Zog's Annunziata collar/badge and his Albanian Order of Bravery badge in this illustration is a portion of his Romanian Order of Carol I insignia. Zog's Albanian Order of Bravery neck badge appears to the photo viewer's left of his Italian Annunziata star; the Carol star is to the viewer's right of the Annunziata star.
    5. James, Once again, nomenclature confusion. A presentation given at the 2008 OMSA convention detailed the development and history of this award including apparent name changes. Artan's color illustration, either directly from Bertrand archives or drawn from the same archive for use in Guy Stair Sainty/Rafal Heydel-Mankoo's World Orders of Knighthood & Merit, shows the obverse. Megan's illustration depicting the reverse of the insignia appears to be from Klietmann's "Ordens-Lexicon, Vol 2" or from that same illustration reproduced in Klenau's European Orders. Do you have statutes indicating that the Order of Skanderbeg included a collar? No statutes or other documents known to me, other than the flawed World Orders of Knighthood & Merit entry, suggest such grade of that Order existed or currently exists. There is no bibliographical cite or other evidence supporting the World Orders of Knighthood & Merit assertion regarding the name of this insignia. It appears that Mankoo accepted bad information regarding the award name or made an incorrect assumption. Artan and g_deploige, Belvue [also known as Bellevue Palace and site of the Belgian Dynasty Museum] Museum staff attempted to find this collar which SHOULD BE in its Albert I collection without any success in 1993, 1994 and 1995. Again in 2000, it could not be located there. Only a record card [with the information quoted by g_deploige] could be found. Staff at the Royal Museum of the Army and Military History in Brussels and the Royal Museum for Central Africa, Tervuren, Belgium [which house some decorations relating to King Albert I] reported in 1994 that it was not in their collections. Speculation that Albert's Albanian collar [and some of his other decorations] somehow got intermingled with Leopold III's awards continues. A London auction house sold a portion of Leopold III's awards in the 1980s (approximately) but this collar was not one of those lots.
    6. Hello All, I am back in connectivity for a while and want to thank everyone for their comments and illustrations on this thread. On the question of exactly what the document Artan posted that apparently confers a Wied military merit award actually means, I agree with Artan's interpretation. That is, it represents an award of a Black Eagle medal. Why? The very fluid conditions during the Prince's time in Albania, especially at the end, mitigated against accurate record keeping. Dr. Klietmann noted this several times in letters and his article that appeared both in his sales lists and the "Medal Collector". It explains why even with his access to Wied family records, his awardee list is faulty. {N.B. Twice, at least, his attention was directed to the awards to Dutchmen. He never added them to his list but then the Ordens Lexicon number was never reprinted.} The apparent change in court letterhead illustrated earlier in this thread suggests a very fluid and not necessarily consistent use. This hints that "correct" forms were not absolutely followed. The document is signed by the Court Chancellor and not the Orders Secretary or the Prince. Does this mean it is an "out-of-bounds" item? A personal favor? Both somewhat strange due to the position of the awardee but perhaps possible. A more likely explanation is that it was a "rush job." Another factor was the apparent much wider distribution of Black Eagle and Arrival medals noted in Heaton-Armstrong. If Heaton-Armstrong was actually the Orders Secretary and received the order, no document exists in his family archive. Documents apparently accompanied some awards to foreign soldiers, consuls and diplomats but not all. It is unknown whether a document for Abbas exists in Egyptian archives. Diplomas for most of his decorations survive in the Abdan Palace collection but two researchers have told me they could not locate an Albanian Black Eagle document there. Next is the posit of a heretofore completely unknown Wied military merit medal. While such an award may be possible, it appears not probable. Remember that Wied seems to have been a protocol stickler with decrees for everything from court ceremonial to the Order statute, from the "Crown Prince's flag design" to the style of trouser trim. For a military award to exist without documentation or physical evidence appears strange. Most tellingly to me, is the circumstance of finding of this document together with a Black Eagle medal. Frankly, I am happily surprized that any documents held in private hands in Albania over the past 95 years at all survived.
    7. Forgot to say that Estonia revived the White Star Order after regaining independence.
    8. This ex-Colson bar likely has the Belgian Crown substituted for something else---when Tony held it speculative thoughts were something Reuss [as Kapitular posits] or maybe a Bulgarian St. Alexander. Seem to recall that the backing had been resewn at one time or another. As mentioned elsewhere, some BE Crown bestowals can be traced and others, not. Good luck.
    9. The Hungarian Merit Order is very likely the post 1992 type of this Order; that of the current republic given 1) the center is of that type [crest on shield rather than undifferented] 2) the ribbon color and 3) the contemporary nature of this bar.
    10. ARTAN!!!! MAGNFICANT!! I am overwhelmed by your continuing archive richness and variety! These are wonderful materials without parallel in my years following Albanian awards. I cannot congratulate you enought! Sincere thanks!! James, Klietmann writes that documents were officially written/presented in Albanian and French. French being the then universal diplomatic language it is no real surprise that French is the document language. Some people apparently got documents in both languages. Bob McNamara said that some documents were also given in German but whether these were items submitted in connection with 'permission to wear' requests is unclear. I suspect that when the Prince's official translator was being given an award, the language issue would be more complicated that usual. The 2nd September document is signed by the Court/Palace Marshal. To my understanding, there is no record of any Wied Albanian military merit medal heretofore. Eric, Thank you for the heads-up, more to follow.
    11. Artan, THANK YOU FOR THIS PHOTO!! You have a treasure trove! I visited several places in Tirana (Skanderbeg Square Museum, old Palace, Ministry of Defence, etc) several years ago and found little useful information. Perhaps the Wied archives contain some information but so far it is impossible to visit them. Thank you again!
    12. The OMSA "Medal Collector" contained an article on Bophuthatswana's Order of the Leopard some years ago. The article was written because of an award of the grand cross of this order to Frank Sinatra when he performed at Sun City in South Africa. I believe at least the star was illustrated. Unfortunately I do not have a "Medal Collector" index available. Perhaps someone else could consult that index?
    13. The EDHEM book is sometimes available from Spink's and on eBay from time to time--price is about $100 U.S.
    14. Artan--Sincere Thanks Again!!!! Magnificant! WONDERFUL!!! James--The 6 Month Kingdom cover illustration is actually represents Heaton-Armstrong, according to the authors. I contacted them for an illustration of him wearing the BE to date withut success. That's why he's shown wearing a black fez-type hat and only the BE breast badge and accession medal. (Both hardly identifiable.) Again, this is not an actual photo but a heavily retouched illustration. Heaton-Armstrong is seen in several of the "Einzug des Fursten Wilhelm. von Albanien" and "Einzug des Furstenpaares von Albanien" postcard series pictures, usually to the prince?s right.
    15. Artan!!! Again, FANTASTIC PHOTO!! THANK YOU!! Do you know anything about the officer wearing the Black Eagle Order? Very few Albanians received the Order, according to Klietmann. This photo could reconfirm that Klietmann's tabulation of awards is not entirely correct. [His Ordens-Lexicon article was earlier known not to include the names of several Dutch individuals decorated by Wilhelm.] Heaton-Armstrong certainly suggests that Wilhelm awarded Black Eagle insignia, especially the medals, more freely than Klietmann states. Artan & James: The Black Eagle Order military division was distinguished from the civil division for knights [and likely, officers] by the addition of crossed swords to the ribbon, not the badge. [illustrated in J. Jacob's Court Jewelers of the World.] This officer may have received a civil division badge or the swords may have fallen off of the ribbon. Klietmann reports an award of just one commander with swords but does not describe the insignia. James----you are correct, concerning the stars Wilhelm wears being related to the powers interested in promoting Albanian independence. Austria-Hungary, Italy, Russia, France, Germany and the United Kingdom were the six powers guaranteeing Albanian independence and the Albanian state. Austria-Hungary and Italy were the 'most concerned' and actually supplied most resources [funds, arms, advisors, etc.] other than the Dutch officers serving in the Gendarmerie available to Wilhelm. Perhaps lack of space explains absence of his Legion of Honor and Red Eagle stars. Artan, again most sincere thanks for sharing your wonderful photo archive!! Absolutely terrific!! ! WONDERFUL!!!
    16. Artan----Your first and second pictures include persons in the Albanian-Italian Civil Government uniform of the 1939-43 period. [Those with hat badges of double-headed eagle surmounted by Italian type crown.] Several references describe this uniform; the easiest to obtain is from an Italian Militaria magazine. I am traveling but will post the magazine name and number in about a month as I do not remember it. Terrific photos!! Thank you for posting them! I do not know about the other photos.
    17. Artan----WONDERFUL!!! It is the first time I have seen photo! Many thanks for posting this!! Have you any illustrations of other people wearing Black Eagle insignia? Best regards!!
    18. Artan----Sincere thanks to you for posting the last Wilhelm photo (dated 7.03.14) in your series!!!!! I have a nearly illegible xerox of it made 40 years ago but have been unable to rediscover a clear copy of it until you posted this one! Is it taken from the "Einzug des Fursten Wilhelm. von Albanien" and "Einzug des Furstenpaares von Albanien" postcard series? James-----Wilhelm received a Russian Alex Nevski GC on 27 Feb 1914. This is mentioned in the royalark website as well as the Almanach de Gotha. I suspect the neckbadge is a Romanian Carol I Commander, yet another Romanian link. Albanian historian Hussien Kuptai reported that Wilhelm had received the Grand Commander of this Order in 1911 or 1912----but his statement is not confirmed. Here we see him possibly wearing at least the neckbadge. He is not wearing several other Grand Cross/lst class stars he had received before landing in Albania (Legion of Honor, Prussian Red Eagle, etc.) so it may not be surprising that he would not have worn a Carol I Grand Commander star if he actually had been awarded one.
    19. James, You are correct regarding the Romanian Star and other insignia in the photo just posted. The 3rd star in your most recently posted photo of Wilhem is a W?rttemberg Friedrichs-Orden. His four badge ordenspange is a Prussian Crown (3rd?) followed by ? but usually described as a Zentar medal, followed by a Bulgarian Military Merit Order 5th class then a Romanian Carol 40th Jubilee Medal of 1906. A somewhat atypical group with no Albanian national honor. Nonetheless, this is the most generally reproduced illustration of Wilhelm. For the illustration of Wilhelm wearing the BE, refer to the 7th post in the http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DN series; I miscounted the position in my earlier post by two positions. This is the one with two b/w photos [one above the other; first titled "Einzug des Fursten Wilhelm. von Albanien"--second titled "Einzug des Furstenpaares von Albanien"] just under the post containing the card with 3 Albanian stamps on the card face similar to the one you've just posted . If you enlarge the first image the star is quite clear. Enlarge the 2nd and the sash becomes clear. For a hand drawn illo and incomplete list of Wilhelm's personal awards, see also http://www.royalark.net/Albania/wied.htm. Wilhelm's baggage actually included Black Eagle Order insignia when he traveled to Albania; he also took uniforms to be distributed to high rank Albanian officials waiting for his arrival in Durazzo (Essad Pasha, for example). Several sources report this story, most recently The Six Month Kingdom.
    20. The postcard images in the post under the postcard print of a photograph of the prince with three stamps are the ones depicting him wearing the BE star [upper image--top left star] and sash [lower image]. As I opined in my first response, before retouching the image you posted shows him wearing a Johanniter badge (note eagles in cross angles) at throat & Johanniter cloth star on his lower chest. The neck badge was retouched and additional 'awards' added to the negative.
    21. Look at the images in the 5th post on that page: the Black Eagle star is Wilhelm's topmost left star & the 2nd image clearly shows the BE sash. Klietmann's Ordens Lexicon Band II illustrates all insignia: all classes have obverse badge centers fully enameled & for reverse badge centers only the motto ring enameled---then white enamel for I class badge & obverse star corpus; reddish brown for II & III class badge & II class star obverse corpus; and --except centers--no enamel for IV & V class. Ribbon black with 1/5 red side stripes. What information are you seeking exactly? If you seek ID for the retouched awards depicted on your original post they are either completely hand drawn or hand drawn over W's Johanniter awards or over his medal bar shown in various postcards like the one in the 4th post of the page I refer to. Thus, they are a fabrication of whoever retouched the photo.
    22. You may visit: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DN Here you will see many useful Wied images, including several seldom seen very clear images of him wearing the Black Eagle Order sash and star. I do not remember if that site has an unretouched version of the one you originally displayed but, if not, do other Google image searchs and you wil see it--this image also appears on several postcard sites and the New Contemporary Magazine, May 1914 issue.
    23. Jeff and Dragomir are correct---this heavily retouched photo is incorrect (except for the face) in all respects--even the uniform collar. The original photo this "was enhanced" from shows him wearing a Johanniter at throat & cloth star. Other awards are simply negative retouches. Check the royalty website for an incomplete list of Wilhelm's awards.
    24. Amazing and ..........do I observe someone wearing a hard hat?!?!? Logical protection during blizzard/avalanche [of paper]. Joking aside, a verified testimonial to dedicated and unselfish wisdom and comradeship!!! THANK YOU!!
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