Komtur

From the same book a group of some officials of the medical aid from different organisations. A few are from the Red Cross ...

Hm, you?ve got me I can?t tell you that in detail. I have a picture of a Johanniter knight in uniform for 1870/71 but can not find it now - I have to organize myself in a better way. The picture above is no doubt from WW1. The Johanniterorden supplied the red cross medical aid in WW1 for instance with 64 hospitals for about 4000 beds, they sended about 1900 nurses behind the frontier and supplied 3 special trains for sick and wounded. In the picture you can see the surgery waggon of such a train of the Johanniter (Information and picture from "Unter dem Roten Kreuz im Weltkriege - Das Buch der freiwilligen Krankenpflege" Berlin 1934). That all was organized by a hand full of knights wearing their own uniforms similar to that of the red cross officials. Unfortunately I am not able to tell you anything about rank distinctions. Regards, Komtur.

I think you are right. The person is wearing the uniform of an official of the Johanniterorden. Regards, Komtur.

How different these marks can be! HOSSAUER on the same class and model. Regards, Komtur.

With that scarce decoration you should always be careful. There exist lots of copies of the Oldenburg houseorder. Especially the one with laurels discussed here was sold on Thies auction Dec. 2003 as a modern copy. With regards, Komtur.

And here we find his Johanniter Ehrenritter: Gothaisches Genealogische Taschenbuch der Gr?fliche H?user 1917 IMO he is wearing on the foto above the uniform of the Johanniter!

From Wer ist?s, Herrmann Degener, Unsere Zeitgenossen, 1914. As written there Graf von Bassewitz is to be found in the rank list 1998 in the Th?ringisches Husarenregiment Nr. 12 as Premierleutnant and Adjutant without any decoration. Best regards, Komtur.

It is exactly that book. "Festfahrt" means in that context not much more then journey. Best regards, Komtur.

Ah, thank you! Do you know, who made the official crosses and have you a source, showing that Godet did produce them too? Here we have another one: Generalarzt Ferdinand Rudolph von Leuthold, as Leibarzt of the Kaiser in Mirbachs book. Died in 1905, so he can not be in the DOA 1908/9.

The first one I found fitting in everything: Dr. Paul Dammann, as Marine-Oberstabsarzt 2. Klasse on SMS "Hertha" he is mentioned by Mirbach, we have a picture showing him with the cross and he is listed with it in the DOA 1908/9 :cheers:

Back to Curt von Morgen. As we have now to pictures of him with the Jerusalemkreuz and one with this cross on the bar, the other with the cross as a single decoration, it is quite clear, that only one can be the original cross handed out by the Kaiser. The other must be a privat made item. So not everything looking exactly like the cross here must be a fake!

Can someone have a look in the Geile roll of rare decorations, listed in the DOA 1908/9, if this person is one of the 5 owners of the Jerusalemkreuz mentioned there?

It was told, that this person with the Jerusalemkreuz was an owner of a factory in Oderberg near Berlin.

As we used to say in our little country: Even a blind chicken sometimes find a corn No, I posted Morgen just by chance. But we know now, that the von Morgen in the DOA 1908/9 is the same, because it is Curt!

Generalleutnant Hans von Plessen (later Generaloberst) is on Mirbachs roll, got the cross and if you think his Jerusalemkreuz is listed in the DOA 1908/9 , you are wrong.

A Major von Morgen (later General) is on the Mirbach roll and got the cross. There is a Oberstleutnant von Morgen (and I think it?s him) in the DOA 1908/9, but a Jerusalemkreuz is not listed there.

B?lows Jerusalemkreuz

In that case I?m afraid the DOA is not a great help: Bernhard F?rst von B?low is on the Mirbach roll and got the cross. He is also in the DOA 1908/9, but the Jerusalemkreuz is not listed there. BTW Bernd, could we see the whole person :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, we do not know that in detail. In a book, published short after the journey by Freiherr von Mirbach (Oberhofmeister of the Empress) it is written: Back in the camp the Kaiser goes into the tents and handed over personally to everyone of his escort the Jerusalem-Kreuz endowed by himself. From the same book is the roll of persons belonging to this escort. There you find lots of women. It is not clear, if really everyone of this roll got this cross. Additionally we do not know, if other persons, not listed in that roll, got the cross too. I add a picture of the cross from Mirbachs book:

Ah, I was to late. Want to buy it because of the nice Scharffenberg-Label. Sorry Seller and Buyer, it is missing here, so it is my duty to post this pic Regards, Komtur.

Yes, I have that roll - but I believe I was sending it to Paul C a few month ago If not, please let me know! Best regards, Komtur.

Shown here before, but fitting to this thread as another very close combination to that kind of Beamten-bar:

Thanks, but what source are these names from? Regards, Komtur.

Thanks Rick! ... I thougt in the same direction, there is no matching Zacharias in the Handbuch f?r den Preu?ischen Hof und Staat 1905, 1909, 1911, 1914 and also in the Handbuch f?r das Deutsche Reich 1918 ... ... so you seem to be right - even if it is a Beamter - wrong name and wrong story. ... are you joking or is that "CEJ" Hindenburg Cross really a special one? The price is "medium" and I think it over giving the bar back to the dealer, because it was offered as a Doctors bar and that?s my special interest. Best regards, Komtur.

Hallo forumites, today I got this bar from a dealer. He told me it comes from a privat household from a person telling him, it is the bar of his grandfather and "Feldarzt" (?) Dr. Zacharias. No question, the sewing is far from Godet style, the metal plate was extended. I is all so homework like, that I can not believe, it is a forgery. For it is a tuxedo bar, it must be a Saxon person. How can there be the Prussian DAK for officers on this bar? May be for colonial service? There is unfortunately no matching Zacharias in the Saxon rank lists from 1901, 1907, 1914, the Prussian rank lists of 1904, 1909, 1914, no medical officer in the Ehrenrangliste des Deutschen Heeres, no matching person in the Ordensalmanach 1908/9, no Zacharias in a roll of Saxon medical officers in WWI, mo matching Zacharias in the roll of the Kaiser-Wilhelms-Akademie f?r das milit?r?rztliche Bildungswesen 1910 What do you think of this bar? Best regards, Komtur.