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    ThaiDave

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    Posts posted by ThaiDave

    1. Hi

       

      It is not any officially issued Vietnam medal I have ever seen, or elsewhere in Indochina. It doesn't appear "official quality".  Maybe it could be for an organization ?  But not one that is in any of my information about Vietnam medals.

       

      Rgds

      Dave

    2. Hello Dragomir

       

      This book is published by the medals department of the Secretariat of the Cabinet.  They republish similar, updated, books from time to time.  The second page shown is acknowledgements, or names of the committee members. The  publishing information is on another page (I don't have the book handy, but I have written it down before as below).

       

      This is how I catalogued it :

       

        -  สำนักเลขาธิการคณะรัฐมนตรี (Samnak Lekhathikan Khana Ratthamontri) (The Secretariat of the Cabinet), เครื่องราชอิสริยาภรณ์ไทย (Khruang Racha Issariyaphorn Thai) (Royal Thai Orders and Decorations), Bangkok, ศิริมิตรการพิมพ์ (Sirimit Press), 2523 (1980), 12 + 350 p., 27.3 x 25 cm, ill. col., bibl. (Thai)

       

      (Background and types of Thai Orders and Decorations, the protocol in receiving the orders and diplomas of the orders)

       

    3. On 19/04/2023 at 17:18, webr55 said:

       

      See here:

       

      Hi.

      The regulations give the design change as 1909. In the group shown this is the pre 1909 type.

       

      The 1941 date I think came from Blass originally - I don't know where he got from, but he was not the most honest source.

       

      We see the award certificates change the form in the 1940s not 1909.  And having handled several hundreds, I have found very few with such apparent age, but that's always hard to tell sometimes.  We have seen a handful of pictures with the new type confirmable before 1941.

      On 18/04/2023 at 23:01, saschaw said:

      Not a specialist for Siamese awards, but from my source, Borna Barac's "Reference Catalogue Orders, Medals and Decorations of the World instituted until 1945. Part IV – Gold Book, P – Z.", p. 1760 to 1762, this type was used from 1873 to 1941.

       

      I have never heard of any Siam design change in 1909?!

       

      :unsure:

       

       

      Further: As for Borna Barac's "Reference Catalogue ...  this is a lifted and copied work with information and pictures taken from anywhere he could get it without references to the sources he lifted from. The information is not always very accurate.  Some of the pictures are even modified (one medal converted into another for example).  So perhaps its useful as a (copied from other peoples works) basic information.  But it certainly isn't a definite work for specialist precise details, especially over any other accurate information.

    4. Hi nickstrenk,

       

      Giấy chứng nhận (Award Certificate) is a preliminary document given, possibly along with the medal, while waiting for the main commendation document to arrive. Except for smaller awards or titles it may be the only document.  For orders & decorations, it is Giấy chứng nhận đeo Huân chương (Certificate of receiving Orders).  A typical official award document for the Friendship Decoration is as below (this specific document for example was sent later via the embassy, with additional letters).

       

      The medal and suspension perhaps do not appear to be matched ?  Likewise, I didn't find any way to confirm the medal number and the certificate number, and surely certificates will be matched to any medal to better sell them.

       

      I have an early working webpage on this medal at: http://www.vietnammedals.org/en/d/d-04_friendship_decoration.html (this website still under heavy construction...but this page is ok).

       

      Rgds

      d-04_friendship_decoration_cert_drv.jpg

    5. Hi.

       

      Its a Buddhist amulet for Luang Pu Fan Ajaro - a commemorative medal his disciple made for events. There are 7 different kinds, but this one from 2507 seem to be the most sought after. (2507 BE - 543 = 1964 AD)

       

      The obverse inscription in Thai is:

       

      Luang Pu Fan Ajaro (พระอาจารย์ฝั้น อาจาโร)

       

      The reverse inscription in Thai is:

       

      Top
      วัดป่าถํ้าขาม สกลนคร
      Wat Pa Tham Kham, Sakon Nakhon

      (Temple Pa Tham Kham, in Sakon Nakhon Province)

       

      Middle  
      คาถา “หัวใจพญานกยูงทอง” (in Pali language)
      Golden peacock heart spell
      ๒๕๐๗ (2507)

       

      Bottom
      รุ่นแรกศิษย์ ทอ.สร้างถวาย
      Made by first generation disciple

       

      Rgds

       

    6. HI All

       

      Here are examples of 3 fakes and 1 genuine sold by a well known dealer.  Unfortunately all were advertised as genuine.  The dealer of course knew the fakes were not genuine, as the pricing was totally different.

       

      Cheers

       

       

      Emedals Siam WW1 Fake 1.JPG

      Emedals Siam WW1 Fake 2.JPG

      Emedals Siam WW1 Fake 3.JPG

      Emedals Siam WW1 Genuine 1.JPG

      pics of copy 1 - covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1")

       

       

      s_886.jpg

      s_887.jpg

      s_888.jpg

       

      pics of copy 2 - also covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1") - very similar to the above

       

       

      a_rare_first_war_559d431980531.jpg

      img_02.jpg559d432a1e269.jpg

      img_03.jpg559d433173c99.jpg

    7. Hi Nick

       

      The medal says:

       

      VÌ THẾ HỆ TRẺ = FOR THE YOUNG GENERATION

      ĐOÀN THANH NIÊN LAO ĐỘNG HỒ CHÍ MINH 1931-1971 = Ho Chi Minh Youth Union of Labor 1931-1971

       

      So presumably a commemorative medal for 40 years of Ho Chi Minh Labor Youth Union.  It doesn't really appear to be a medal from the period 1970s however.  Presumably a later issued badge for HCM labor youth union.

       

      There are numerous such commemorative medals / badges.  I have about 100 of similar modern commemorative medals (but not this one !) now in progress adding to my new SRV/DRV medals website, working pages for commemorative medals section starting here : http://www.vietnammedals.org/en/cm/index.html   (warning: Its a work in progress.)

       

      Rgds

      Dave

       

       

    8. Hi Ralstona

      I find a little more about the online BODMR.  Others asked about this, and the official reply was that it cannot be made public.  However, you can buy the book.  Go figure...

      https://forum.ouvre-boite.org/t/bulletin-officiel-des-decorations-medailles-et-recompenses/271/16

      So for now have to find a location that has the book.  Presumable any major French library or archive.

      Rgds
      Dave

      18090683053e30f485b6c4edbb3fed99a498a651.pdf

    9. Ralstona,

      Its a little late to find this thread, but I'll add my 2 cents.

      All of these medals I found in Vietnam.  So I'm more inclined to think that they are awarded in Vietnam, rather than in France and taken back.  Therefore, perhaps they are from French companies which continued in Vietnam after 1954.

      Its interested to check the actual citation in the official journal.  I will look further towards this. Then it will be clear. I see that this was started in 1951, but as yet I don't find online access. Its not in Gallica as I can see, and as per French Widipedia it is not online (but info from 2010)

      https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_officiel_des_décorations,_médailles_et_récompenses

      https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2010/qSEQ100312713.html

      If existed, I think it should be here: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/publications-officielles/bulletins-officiels

      Therefore, one perhaps at this time needs to find a place which has a subscription to this official bulliten.

      Rgds

      Dave

      P/S  It's my site - www.indochinamedals.com ?

    10. On 04/03/2019 at 11:28, Micke said:

      Hi Dave

      What i mean is that the certificates are showing the highest grade of the order.

      I agree that its strange that the certificat are showing the obsoleted medal. Maybe they hade alot of them and used them until lthey were finished up.

      What are your thoughts about the diffrent classes i mentioned?

       

      BR

      Micke

       

      Hi Micke

      I don't know if that is good explanation for certificates - seems odd that they would have so many extra documents printed up that they would last for another 30 years. And then the documents would get used up just the time they do a re-write of the order regulations, and coincidentally the old wisdom of the date for the type change at this time. (1941 was what I had heard decades ago as people told me also).

      Yes, the documents for all grades are with the highest class of the award.

      Have you found any new information on this ?  I got a translation of the Thai government book in English and read thru again.  It says as we know from the regulations the design change in 1909.  But I just don't see it fully in practice, except for some pictures as have been posted.  1909 to 1941 isn't a short time, and so I would expect a lot more of the new model found in old patina and more pictures of Thais as well as foreigners - and I just don't see that much. Maybe those years the awards were few, and therefore not much around. Maybe not everyone changed to the new model, and 1941 was a hard reset to the new model.

      So I think it still needs more research how it played out in practice. 

      Rgds

      Dave

    11. On 27/03/2020 at 16:18, Micke said:

      This old versions of the order of the white elephant are before 1909. The order of the elephant and the order of the crown was changed in 1909.

      order of the white elephant 1909.pdf 167.76 kB · 2 downloads order of the crown 1909.pdf 147.84 kB · 2 downloads

      HI Micke,

      (deleting my repeated discussion, which we already had over here)

       

      Rgds

      Dave

    12. On 09/11/2014 at 11:44, Igor Ostapenko said:

      Hi Igor,

      To me this looks like a Benson box.  But I don't have a medal or a picture of a medal by Benson to confirm the design details that it is their manufacture. Perhaps eventually the stopped marking their medals, as the rest of the manufacturers eventually have.

      I have seen Benson manufacturing thru the later type also.

      Rgds

      Dave

       

      On 09/11/2014 at 11:44, Igor Ostapenko said:

       

      post-343-0-92914300-1415519042.jpg

       

    13. This is

      3. Mike Shank copy - some features thicker, especially Thai characters on the reverse.

      The details are not as sharp. The Thai characters are all not as nice - I suppose it could have been done by a Thai, but it is not as nice. (Its not exactly how I learned to write, but some of the characters are more correct.) Some of the upper accents are very thick (flattened ? maybe it was smashed ? Maybe someone has other examples to compare)

      523228707_ThaiUN3copy-1.thumb.jpg.2bf59ffa16fd900722b0ed83763080c5.jpg

       

      Thai UN 3 copy - 2.jpg

    14. Hi All

      As part of a discussion on ebay, I took a look at Thailand Korea United Nations UN Service Medal variations I have observed. 

      A quick filter for type is the small gap on the suspension knob, however there are many other small differences such as the map details, lettering, etc.

      • 1. Type wide gap on suspension knob
      • 2. Type narrow gap on suspension knob
      • 2a. Type narrow gap on suspension knob, finer strike (presumably earlier ?)
      • 3. Mike Shank copy - all features thicker, especially Thai characters on the reverse.

      Perhaps others have additional examples, information about these examples, or other comments.

      Rgds,
      Dave

      ________________________________________________________________________________________

      This is

      1. Type wide gap on suspension knob

      Thai UN 1 wide gap - 1.JPG

      Thai UN 1 wide gap - 2.JPG

      This is

      2. Type narrow gap on suspension knob

      Thai UN 2 narrow gap - 2.JPG

      Thai UN 2 narrow gap - 1 .JPG

       

       

       

      This is

      2a. Type narrow gap on suspension knob, finer strike (presumably earlier ?)

      It is very similar to the above type 2. But the details much finer.

      I received it is poor condition, and had to clean it up to get this condition.

      Thai UN 2a narrow gap - 2.JPG

      Thai UN 2a narrow gap - 1.JPG

    15. Hello to all

       

      In January this year I visited the Central Military Museum in Moscow, as well as the Contemporary History Museum in Moscow.  Mainly I was looking for Democratic Republic of Vietnam medals from old picture I had in my files from before (which display I never found).  However, I took pictures of all the medals there (medium quality photos from my smartphone).  Perhaps someone interested in Russian or Soviet medals will be interested in these.

       

      I posted to my dropbox, and anyone can download from these links:

       

      1.      Moscow Central Military Museum (406 pictures, 1.65GB), in 4 folders for smaller download blocks

       

      https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2e4nmk1cbrc6val/AAASxSNvjMCLUsctFenNZZh1a?dl=0

       

      2.      Moscow Contemporary History Museum (52 pictures, 176 MB)

       

      https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z0z717citr97nj8/AABrj6jHdmq-9QflHZGiR--ta?dl=0

       

      You can download the pictures as a zip files by selecting the box to the left of the folder Medals, Medals 1, Medals 2, Medals 3, Medals 4 (however mouse over that and the selection appears) and then select download (on right side of screen, in dropdown menu).  Or you can view individually also if desired 1x1 maneuvering inside the folders.

      The photos quality is medium from my smartphone only.  And only medals, no badges.

       

      Regards

      RDave

    16. Hi Micke

      Officially it is light blue.  But I have never seen any ribbons still light blue.  The ribbon itself fades, as even in-between where there is no sun, it is also faded.  Some even have slight green tint.  I have seen the 2nd pic you posted, but I don't remember where it was from - I presume it is colored.

      Picture from 1992 Thai Medals Department book :

      image.png.02be37341f42c63be97d7cdd11d0fb06.png

      Picture from Thai Medals Department 1970 book (oldest color pic I have):

      image.png.ba0ce1506415d5a31f2765172cd7659c.png

      Most unfaded ribbon pic I have

      image.png.6bdba70e367b73c8da457910f1a13bea.png

      Typical fading on all sides of ribbon - not sun fading on front only ( I didn't try to peer inside the threads - might be useful for less oxidized color ?)

      image.png.986a3fc31041e457af7575981b8b558c.png

      Most I've seen nearly all completely faded, however this one I can see the internal fibers still some greenish color

      image.png.2101bd0ed7883a006f1e20578b7b90e0.png

      Miniature

      image.png.22bc3ffcd430f18847cb8d777ff18a8d.png

      Rgds

      Dave

      www.indochinamedals.com

    17. Hi MIcke

      There was a collar from 1893 thru 1941.  It was only ever used by the king.

      The special class is not a collar. It was created in 1909, and was the highest class (presumably below the collar).

      The insignia on the 1942 certificates on is the special class, not the now obsolete collar.

      However, until 1941, the type of medal displayed on the certificates was the type obsoleted in 1909. Strange to show the obsoleted design when it was not longer used

      Rgds
      Dave

       

    18. Hi Micke

      The initial reproduction series of these medals (many different medals) all had the same ribbon.  There were a couple later ribbon versions.  There wasn't any attempt to have them with correct type ribbons.

      Long time back I searched out many of these reproductions, and eventually I found the stall of the guy that had them made.  He had drawers of all the different parts, and assembled them in every combination. The bars were all the same.

      Here are some examples of these reproductions, along with others :

      1.JPG

      2.JPG

      3.JPG

      4.JPG

    19. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – Friendship Order

      Hi All,

      I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

      1. Does anyone have the 1997 regulations ?

      2. Does anyone have different variations ?  or brass vs. aluminum examples ? (not Friendship Decorations – that is another page)

      3. Does anyone have any other references for this order ?

      4. Does anyone have any award certificates for this order ?

      The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-10_friendship_order.html

      Rgds

      Dave

      variations.JPG

      referenecs.JPG

    20. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – Bravery Order

      Hi All,

      I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

      1. This order was created by decree in 2003, and ratified in 2004.  The design was given in the decree of 2006.  Does anyone know when it actually came out ?  in 2004 (was their earlier design info elsewhere ?) or only in 2006 when the design details were decreed ?

      2. Does anyone know if the initial 2004 versions had 25mm ribbons and then 28mm per the 2006 regulations ?

      3. Does anyone have any references for this order ?

      The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-09_bravery_order.html

      Rgds

      Dave

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