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ThaiDave

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Posts posted by ThaiDave

  1. HI All

     

    Here are examples of 3 fakes and 1 genuine sold by a well known dealer.  Unfortunately all were advertised as genuine.  The dealer of course knew the fakes were not genuine, as the pricing was totally different.

     

    Cheers

     

     

    Emedals Siam WW1 Fake 1.JPG

    Emedals Siam WW1 Fake 2.JPG

    Emedals Siam WW1 Fake 3.JPG

    Emedals Siam WW1 Genuine 1.JPG

    pics of copy 1 - covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1")

     

     

    s_886.jpg

    s_887.jpg

    s_888.jpg

     

    pics of copy 2 - also covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1") - very similar to the above

     

     

    a_rare_first_war_559d431980531.jpg

    img_02.jpg559d432a1e269.jpg

    img_03.jpg559d433173c99.jpg

  2. Hi Nick

     

    The medal says:

     

    VÌ THẾ HỆ TRẺ = FOR THE YOUNG GENERATION

    ĐOÀN THANH NIÊN LAO ĐỘNG HỒ CHÍ MINH 1931-1971 = Ho Chi Minh Youth Union of Labor 1931-1971

     

    So presumably a commemorative medal for 40 years of Ho Chi Minh Labor Youth Union.  It doesn't really appear to be a medal from the period 1970s however.  Presumably a later issued badge for HCM labor youth union.

     

    There are numerous such commemorative medals / badges.  I have about 100 of similar modern commemorative medals (but not this one !) now in progress adding to my new SRV/DRV medals website, working pages for commemorative medals section starting here : http://www.vietnammedals.org/en/cm/index.html   (warning: Its a work in progress.)

     

    Rgds

    Dave

     

     

  3. Hi Ralstona

    I find a little more about the online BODMR.  Others asked about this, and the official reply was that it cannot be made public.  However, you can buy the book.  Go figure...

    https://forum.ouvre-boite.org/t/bulletin-officiel-des-decorations-medailles-et-recompenses/271/16

    So for now have to find a location that has the book.  Presumable any major French library or archive.

    Rgds
    Dave

    18090683053e30f485b6c4edbb3fed99a498a651.pdf

  4. Ralstona,

    Its a little late to find this thread, but I'll add my 2 cents.

    All of these medals I found in Vietnam.  So I'm more inclined to think that they are awarded in Vietnam, rather than in France and taken back.  Therefore, perhaps they are from French companies which continued in Vietnam after 1954.

    Its interested to check the actual citation in the official journal.  I will look further towards this. Then it will be clear. I see that this was started in 1951, but as yet I don't find online access. Its not in Gallica as I can see, and as per French Widipedia it is not online (but info from 2010)

    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_officiel_des_décorations,_médailles_et_récompenses

    https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2010/qSEQ100312713.html

    If existed, I think it should be here: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/publications-officielles/bulletins-officiels

    Therefore, one perhaps at this time needs to find a place which has a subscription to this official bulliten.

    Rgds

    Dave

    P/S  It's my site - www.indochinamedals.com 😉

  5. On 04/03/2019 at 11:28, Micke said:

    Hi Dave

    What i mean is that the certificates are showing the highest grade of the order.

    I agree that its strange that the certificat are showing the obsoleted medal. Maybe they hade alot of them and used them until lthey were finished up.

    What are your thoughts about the diffrent classes i mentioned?

     

    BR

    Micke

     

    Hi Micke

    I don't know if that is good explanation for certificates - seems odd that they would have so many extra documents printed up that they would last for another 30 years. And then the documents would get used up just the time they do a re-write of the order regulations, and coincidentally the old wisdom of the date for the type change at this time. (1941 was what I had heard decades ago as people told me also).

    Yes, the documents for all grades are with the highest class of the award.

    Have you found any new information on this ?  I got a translation of the Thai government book in English and read thru again.  It says as we know from the regulations the design change in 1909.  But I just don't see it fully in practice, except for some pictures as have been posted.  1909 to 1941 isn't a short time, and so I would expect a lot more of the new model found in old patina and more pictures of Thais as well as foreigners - and I just don't see that much. Maybe those years the awards were few, and therefore not much around. Maybe not everyone changed to the new model, and 1941 was a hard reset to the new model.

    So I think it still needs more research how it played out in practice. 

    Rgds

    Dave

  6. On 27/03/2020 at 16:18, Micke said:

    This old versions of the order of the white elephant are before 1909. The order of the elephant and the order of the crown was changed in 1909.

    order of the white elephant 1909.pdf 167.76 kB · 2 downloads order of the crown 1909.pdf 147.84 kB · 2 downloads

    HI Micke,

    (deleting my repeated discussion, which we already had over here)

     

    Rgds

    Dave

  7. On 09/11/2014 at 11:44, Igor Ostapenko said:

    Hi Igor,

    To me this looks like a Benson box.  But I don't have a medal or a picture of a medal by Benson to confirm the design details that it is their manufacture. Perhaps eventually the stopped marking their medals, as the rest of the manufacturers eventually have.

    I have seen Benson manufacturing thru the later type also.

    Rgds

    Dave

     

    On 09/11/2014 at 11:44, Igor Ostapenko said:

     

    post-343-0-92914300-1415519042.jpg

     

  8. This is

    3. Mike Shank copy - some features thicker, especially Thai characters on the reverse.

    The details are not as sharp. The Thai characters are all not as nice - I suppose it could have been done by a Thai, but it is not as nice. (Its not exactly how I learned to write, but some of the characters are more correct.) Some of the upper accents are very thick (flattened ? maybe it was smashed ? Maybe someone has other examples to compare)

    523228707_ThaiUN3copy-1.thumb.jpg.2bf59ffa16fd900722b0ed83763080c5.jpg

     

    Thai UN 3 copy - 2.jpg

  9. Hi All

    As part of a discussion on ebay, I took a look at Thailand Korea United Nations UN Service Medal variations I have observed. 

    A quick filter for type is the small gap on the suspension knob, however there are many other small differences such as the map details, lettering, etc.

    • 1. Type wide gap on suspension knob
    • 2. Type narrow gap on suspension knob
    • 2a. Type narrow gap on suspension knob, finer strike (presumably earlier ?)
    • 3. Mike Shank copy - all features thicker, especially Thai characters on the reverse.

    Perhaps others have additional examples, information about these examples, or other comments.

    Rgds,
    Dave

    ________________________________________________________________________________________

    This is

    1. Type wide gap on suspension knob

    Thai UN 1 wide gap - 1.JPG

    Thai UN 1 wide gap - 2.JPG

    This is

    2. Type narrow gap on suspension knob

    Thai UN 2 narrow gap - 2.JPG

    Thai UN 2 narrow gap - 1 .JPG

     

     

     

    This is

    2a. Type narrow gap on suspension knob, finer strike (presumably earlier ?)

    It is very similar to the above type 2. But the details much finer.

    I received it is poor condition, and had to clean it up to get this condition.

    Thai UN 2a narrow gap - 2.JPG

    Thai UN 2a narrow gap - 1.JPG

  10. Hello to all

     

    In January this year I visited the Central Military Museum in Moscow, as well as the Contemporary History Museum in Moscow.  Mainly I was looking for Democratic Republic of Vietnam medals from old picture I had in my files from before (which display I never found).  However, I took pictures of all the medals there (medium quality photos from my smartphone).  Perhaps someone interested in Russian or Soviet medals will be interested in these.

     

    I posted to my dropbox, and anyone can download from these links:

     

    1.      Moscow Central Military Museum (406 pictures, 1.65GB), in 4 folders for smaller download blocks

     

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2e4nmk1cbrc6val/AAASxSNvjMCLUsctFenNZZh1a?dl=0

     

    2.      Moscow Contemporary History Museum (52 pictures, 176 MB)

     

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z0z717citr97nj8/AABrj6jHdmq-9QflHZGiR--ta?dl=0

     

    You can download the pictures as a zip files by selecting the box to the left of the folder Medals, Medals 1, Medals 2, Medals 3, Medals 4 (however mouse over that and the selection appears) and then select download (on right side of screen, in dropdown menu).  Or you can view individually also if desired 1x1 maneuvering inside the folders.

    The photos quality is medium from my smartphone only.  And only medals, no badges.

     

    Regards

    RDave

  11. Hi Micke

    Officially it is light blue.  But I have never seen any ribbons still light blue.  The ribbon itself fades, as even in-between where there is no sun, it is also faded.  Some even have slight green tint.  I have seen the 2nd pic you posted, but I don't remember where it was from - I presume it is colored.

    Picture from 1992 Thai Medals Department book :

    image.png.02be37341f42c63be97d7cdd11d0fb06.png

    Picture from Thai Medals Department 1970 book (oldest color pic I have):

    image.png.ba0ce1506415d5a31f2765172cd7659c.png

    Most unfaded ribbon pic I have

    image.png.6bdba70e367b73c8da457910f1a13bea.png

    Typical fading on all sides of ribbon - not sun fading on front only ( I didn't try to peer inside the threads - might be useful for less oxidized color ?)

    image.png.986a3fc31041e457af7575981b8b558c.png

    Most I've seen nearly all completely faded, however this one I can see the internal fibers still some greenish color

    image.png.2101bd0ed7883a006f1e20578b7b90e0.png

    Miniature

    image.png.22bc3ffcd430f18847cb8d777ff18a8d.png

    Rgds

    Dave

    www.indochinamedals.com

  12. Hi MIcke

    There was a collar from 1893 thru 1941.  It was only ever used by the king.

    The special class is not a collar. It was created in 1909, and was the highest class (presumably below the collar).

    The insignia on the 1942 certificates on is the special class, not the now obsolete collar.

    However, until 1941, the type of medal displayed on the certificates was the type obsoleted in 1909. Strange to show the obsoleted design when it was not longer used

    Rgds
    Dave

     

  13. Hi Micke

    The initial reproduction series of these medals (many different medals) all had the same ribbon.  There were a couple later ribbon versions.  There wasn't any attempt to have them with correct type ribbons.

    Long time back I searched out many of these reproductions, and eventually I found the stall of the guy that had them made.  He had drawers of all the different parts, and assembled them in every combination. The bars were all the same.

    Here are some examples of these reproductions, along with others :

    1.JPG

    2.JPG

    3.JPG

    4.JPG

  14. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – Friendship Order

    Hi All,

    I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

    1. Does anyone have the 1997 regulations ?

    2. Does anyone have different variations ?  or brass vs. aluminum examples ? (not Friendship Decorations – that is another page)

    3. Does anyone have any other references for this order ?

    4. Does anyone have any award certificates for this order ?

    The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-10_friendship_order.html

    Rgds

    Dave

    variations.JPG

    referenecs.JPG

  15. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – Bravery Order

    Hi All,

    I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

    1. This order was created by decree in 2003, and ratified in 2004.  The design was given in the decree of 2006.  Does anyone know when it actually came out ?  in 2004 (was their earlier design info elsewhere ?) or only in 2006 when the design details were decreed ?

    2. Does anyone know if the initial 2004 versions had 25mm ribbons and then 28mm per the 2006 regulations ?

    3. Does anyone have any references for this order ?

    The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-09_bravery_order.html

    Rgds

    Dave

  16. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – National Unity Order

    Hi All,

    I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

    1. This order was created by decree in 2003, and ratified in 2004.  The design was given in the decree of 2006.  Does anyone know when it actually came out ?  in 2004 (was their earlier design info elsewhere ?) or only in 2006 when the design details were decreed ?

    2. Does anyone have any pictures of the 2004 version ?

    3. Does anyone have any references for this order ?

    The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-08_national_unity_order.html

    Rgds

    Dave

  17. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – Combatant Order

    Hi All,

    I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

    1. Does anyone have any other variations?

    2. Does anyone know what these other items are from (stone and copper)?

    3. Does anyone have pictures or other info for the two early DRV types ? Or any certificates ?

    5. Does anyone have additional references for this order ?

    The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-07_combatant_order.html

    Rgds

    Dave

    Variations.JPG

    variations 2.JPG

    other items.JPG

    early 1.JPG

    early 2.JPG

    references.JPG

  18. Hi All,

    I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

    1. This order was created by decree in 2003, and ratified in 2004.  The design was given in the decree of 2006.  Does anyone know when it actually came out ?  in 2004 (was their earlier design info elsewhere ?) or only in 2006 when the design details were decreed ?

    2. There are two types of 2004/6 version ribbon.  The red/blue version is not matching the 2006 design decree, however was reported in Ed Emering’s article as being valid.  (size is smaller and color different) Maybe this was version in 2004 ? and 2006 version was final ?  Anybody know ?

    3. Does anyone have additional references for this order ?

    The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-06_fatherland_defence_order.html

    Rgds

    Dave

    types.JPG

    references.JPG

  19. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – Military Exploit Order

    Hi All,

    I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

    1. Does anyone have any other variations?

    2. The 1959 US Army publication shows without wreath.  Anyone ever seen other evidence of this for an early type ? (that is not just one with a removed/lost wreath)

    3. Does anyone have any more pictures of the early DRV type ?

    4. Does anyone have additional references for this order ?

    The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-04_military_exploit_order.html

    Rgds

    Dave

    Variations.JPG

    Without wreath.JPG

    early type.JPG

    references.JPG

  20. Socialist Republic of Vietnam – Labor Order

    Hi All,

    I am adding SRV pages to my website, and I had some questions from the SRV collectors out there :

    1. Does anyone have any other variations?

    2. There seems to be one authentic early numbered type. What other numbers do people have ?  Has anyone been able to research recipients ?

    3. I came across a more modern looking couple examples with numbering, which also have unusual colors. Presumably this is a copy ?  Anyone else ever seen this type ?

    4. There is a crude type with numbers out there. Presumably this is a copy. What other numbers do people have ?  When do people remember first seeing this type ?

    5. Does anyone have additional references for this order ?

    The draft page is here: http://www.indochinamedals.com/srv/o-05_labor_order.html

    Rgds

    Dave

    variations.JPG

    Numbered type.JPG

    potential number copy.JPG

    crude numbered copy.JPG

    References.JPG

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