Panzerpionier

Komtur's reply is simply fantastic thank you so much!!! As my German is not good enough for understanding while reading, I will translate Möller-Witten's article in order to fully understand it... Of course I would share the resulting translation, but please note that my mother tongue is Spanish and not English, and therefore I will translate it into Spanish.

Dear Dave That quote should be enough to support my point. Thanks a lot! On the other hand, I have a copy of 2005/2006 edition of Nimmergut's catalog Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen: 1800-1945, but as it has no text at all, only pictures amd prices, I understand that you refer to a different book. Could yo provide a more complete reference for locating a copy of the book? Thanks in advance

Thannk you very much for your replies, which are very interesting and helpful. I forgot to specify that the sourde I read stated specifically that crosses of Royal House Order of Hollenzollern were awarded de facto as an intermediate step between Iron Crosses and Order Pour le Merite, i.e. there was no formal requirement (regulation) about it, but it actually happened that way. Dave says that generals and colonels acting as brigade commanders usually received the Crown Order with Swords and/or the Red Eagle Order with Swords before being considered for the Pour le Merite, some of them higher grades of the Royal House Order of Hollenzollern. That seems to support the theory that an intermediate order was awarded between the Iron Cross and the Pour le Merite, albeit diferent orders were awarded depending of the rank of the recipient. Is there any source that could be cited in this way? O'Connor's "Aviation Awards..." series seens too specific, and Werner Voss example seems too specific to be considered a factual pattern. On the other hand, I have Neville's "Medal Ribbons & Orders of Imperial Germany & Austria", but it seems to be too basic and lacks information about award criteria and figures. Thanks again for your help and support

Dear sirs I just read elsewhere (Wikipedia IIRC) that crosses of Royal House Order of Hollenzollern were awarded as an intermediate step between Iron Crosses and Order Pour le Merite. Unfortunately, no source for that statement was provided. That piece of data would be very useful for muy current research. Could you confirm it? Is there any reliable source (book) supporting that statemenent and that could be cited? Language is no problem. Thanks in advance for your help and support

Thank you very much for your help - Sorry for the late reply. It seems that both the "big" and the "abbreviated" form are used by foreign graduates: (Click on picture to enlarge) Each picture corresponds to a different Spanish Army officer graduated from the United States Army Field Artillery School.

Hi folks What are these badges intended for (instructors, alumni, graduates...)? They seem to be composed by the shield of an US Army School placed on top pf a common back "shield": US Army Military Police School: US Army Infantry School: US Army Ordnance School: Thanks in advance

The two ribbons at the right on the lower row are those of the 1958 long service crosses for NCO's... http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/medallas/texto/constancia.htm How could a guy who was a captain in the 1940's be awarded two crosses for NCO's that were created in 1958? The story behind your ribbon bar does not make sense to me. Best regards

My grandfather joined the Spanish Marine Corps when the 1936-1939 Spanish civil war broke, and in his late years he used a "American Style" ribbon bar much like the one posted by Noor. That style is now standard-issue in the Spanish Armed Forces... it seems to me that some Spanish top brass officers tend to think that adopting US-style uniforms and related stuff shall make our servicemen better soldiers... The Medal for Peace in Morocco dated back to 1927 but it was an hereditary award. Therefore it could be worn by a soldier that served well after the 1920's Spanish campaign in northern Africa. The red ribbon can not definitely be that of the Medal of Alfonso XIII - that medal was created for those who attended to the act when Alfonso XIII sworn in as king in 1902, and the medal of the 25 Years of Peace was created in 1964 for the veterans that served in the 1936-1939 war... 62 years of service are definitely too many years... On the other hand, I dislike the fact that the Spanish Blue Division campaign medal is "alone"... I would expect also a EK or KVK ribbon and the German medal for the Spanish volunteers... of course that guy could have served in non-frontline units of the Blue Division, but the lack of at least one German award is a bit strange to me. And bear in mind that I can go right now to a Spanish military dealer and purchase a brand new, made-to-order ribbon bar much like that one for about 30EUR.

I would say closer to the 40's rather than the 60's... but that's just my gut feeling. Bear in mind that the bulk of the medals were made just after the war end... later batches should have been mainly restrikes to be sold as replacements. It's true that hundreds of Ega?a-made medals are sold today, but I think they are either unissued batches or modern restrikes with original dies made by a "smart guy". On the other hand, quality of mass produced Spanish military awards has drop from acceptable to simply mediocre with time... so I would tend to think "the older the better" ergo "the better the older". That applies to custom made, deluxe items, but in a lesser degree. I've seen another Cruz de Guerra with three bars (three awards). It seems that nationalist soldiers received decorations for SCW service in a point system basis after the war ended. On the other hand, a few crosses were awarded during the war for single acts of bravery. So several cross could be won. On the other hand, as I wrote foreign "volunteers" received only a bravery award when the war ended... After all, they received also awards from their own government - Spanish awards should be some sort of "souvenir"... hard-earned "souvenirs" in some cases. The people that hold their records told me that they have documents from 1956 to 1986. So I would say that the activities of the company ended that year. On the other hand, manufacturing of short batches of medals would not be profitable for a industrial firm, so I would tend to think that the company changed to other products after the big contracts ended. But that's just a gut feeling - I have not checked the records of the company. Please read my comment to italianpolitic above.

Just my thoughts: Both Spanish War Crosses posted by Gordon were made by Ega?a; subtle diferencies are indeed due to different dies and/or different batches. Ega?a company won several huge contratcs ordered by victorious nationalists, and they had to produce several thousands of medals - hence the need to have several die sets. On the other hand, it's true that nationalists had several of their medals made abroad (Italy) during the war, but I am pretty sure the Ega?a company did not subcontract abroad. Some years ago I contacted a foundation that keeps the now-defunct Ega?a company records looking for info on their 1930-1940 activities and products, but it seems that their records from that decade are lost. As the company used forced labour after the war (republican political prisoners), I think the owners could have destroyed their recors of that era after Franco's death to avoid embarrasing investigations. About the enameled cross posted by italianpolitic I think it does not match the document; each foreigner that fought alognside the Spanish nationalist side (Germans, Italians) received only one decoration for bravery when the war ended, and that cross has a second bar for a second awarding. What's more, I have seen the silver content and hexagon-shaped Spanish hallmarks in several Spanish medals and badges made after 1940, and therefore I think that cross was custom-made for a Spanish SCW veteran, who received the award twice. Diferent coloured War Crosses were introduced in 1942, according to the rank of the recipient. But the colour difference was in the sunburst - not in the wreath/central motif. The one posted by italianpolitic is the first enameled War Cross I have ever seen and, as long as more enameles crosses fail to appear, I would say it was either from a short deluxe batch or a rather unique extravaganza. Best regards

My grandfather (first row, second from left) and some of his fellow comrades of the Spanish Infanter?a de Marina (Marine Corps), November 1941. Still alive and about to be 90 years old, he was just 17 when SCW broke, joining Spanish Marine Corps, where his father served in the 1920's North African campaigns. My grandfather did not serve in front line units but garrison duties, and after the war he became a "lifer" and retired as a captain after about 34 years of service. Interestingly, he never took his fidelity oath, as there was little time for such "formalities" during the war... he was given a bolt-action rifle, and shooting some rounds in an improvised range was enough to become automatically a Infante de Marina (Marine). Of course he attended the NCO's school after the war, but the oath was never taken. The well decorated soldier on the second row (second front right) saw a lot of combat, indeed - note ribbon bars and collective, embroidered awards on his left sleeve.

I would need to check the original Heer regulations establishing the 'ESPA?A' Spanish volunteers (Blue Division) armshield. I have checked my sources (Littlejohn, Scurr, etc) but I could not find them. Any clue about how to find them? The 'ESPA?A' armshield was used as a service badge in Spain after WWII by Blue Division veterans serving in the armed forces, and the info mentioned above would be useful to my study on the 20th century Spanish armed forces badges & insignia. Best regards

That guy is wearing the single eight-pointed star of a Spanish comandante (major). Therefore his German rank should be Hauptmann (captain).

Wings are OK. Texts are wrong.

The Spanish section of that website is a pile of crap. The wings posted above are 1946-1975 era Spanish observer wings. The eagle on yoke-and-arrows and the cross on red-yellow-red ribbons are IMHO fantasy items. The other items seem to be genuine AFAIK IMHO there are no connections between those items... just a "made up" "veteran group".

IMHO Hendrik is absolutely right: -The "streaking warrior" medal with the Nazi/Fascist reverse is a 1938 unofficial medal. -The medal with the "crowned lady" obverse and the "streakingh warrior and old lady" reverse is the official 1940 medal for Italian volunteers in Spain. Obviously the "crowned lady" is not a representation of the Italian republic... what is more, the medal for Italian volunteers in "Africa Orientale Italiana" (Italian Western Africa) has the same obverse and a similar reverse but with aded Fasces.

Not Spanish or Spain-related to me. Have a look at this page: http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/ Best regards

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In order to finish one project, I would need some info about German medals awarded for SCW service from a Third Reich era source. I think Doehle's book (any of its editions) would fit my needs. Does anybody have that book? Thanks in advance

Well, I meant it is not an Spanish official medal. It is the medal for the Pavlov Brigade volunteers, created by the USSR government.

The reverse roughly translates into: Good health Strength - Unity To the heroism of the Antifascist Militias and Army 1936 Note that 4th and 5th lines must be reversed in order to be translated into English I will check my sources, but I am 100% sure it is not an official medal.

The Champagne bottle on the black fuselage disk was the emblem of the VB/88, or at least one of them.

IMHO, Bender's theory about correspondence between German awards and Spanish awards is WRONG. These are the figures I have (Source: "La Ayuda Alemana a Espa?a 1936-1939". R. Hidalgo Salazar. Editorial San Martin. Madrid, 1975. ISBN 84-7140-103-7. Pages 225-226.): Spanish Military Merit Order medals (WHITE) awarded to LC members: Gran Cruz (Great Cross): 3 Cruz de 3? clase (3rd class cross): 5 Cruz de 2? clase (2nd class cross): 42 Cruz de 1? clase (2nd class cross): 1234 Other Spanish decorations awarded to LC members: Medalla Militar Individual (Military Medal, individual): 60 Cruz de Guerra (War Cross): 986 Cruz Roja del M?rito Militar (Military Merit Red Cross): 5600 Medalla de la Campa?a (Campaign Medal): 14982 Medalla de Sufrimientos por la Patria (Medal for Sufferings for the Country - Wound Medal): 206 Unfortunately, those figures are incomplete: There are more than 60 recipients of the Military Medal, and I think most of those 14982 recipients of the Campaign medal received another medal too. Best regards

I am researching about the Italian medals awarded to Italian personnel that fought in the Spanish Civil War. I have Morittu's "Guerre e Decorazioni" and Brambilla's "Medaglie Italiane (2) 1901-1996" but they are collectors-oriented rather than historians-oriented, and the regulations are either barely mentioned or simply absent. Researching the web I have found the following books: #1 - Le Decorazioni al Valore dei Regni di Sardegna E D'Italia (1793-1946) Scarpa, Costantino; Sezanne, Paolo. Uffici Storici Esercito. Rome, 1976. #2 - Le Decorazioni Del Regno Di Sardegna e Del Regno D'Italia. Le Decorazioni al Merito. Vol. 1 Scarpa, Costantino; Sezanne, Paolo. Uffici Storici Esercito - Marina -Aeronautica. Rome, 1987. #3 - Le Decorazioni Del Regno Di Sardegna e Del Regno D'Italia. Le Decorazioni al Merito. Vol. 2 Scarpa, Costantino; Sezanne, Paolo. Uffici Storici Esercito - Marina -Aeronautica. Rome, 1992. #4 - Prontuario di Faleristica Ufficiale Italiana Sezanne, Paolo. Albertelli Editore. Parma, 1993. I am interested about the following awards: Medaglia d'Oro al Valore Militare / di Marina / Aeronautico Medaglia d'Argento al Valore Militare / di Marina / Aeronautico Medaglia di Bronzo al Valore Militare / di Marina / Aeronautico Croce di Guerra al Valore Militare Croce al Merito di Guerra Medaglia Benemerenza Volontari Guerra 1915-18 / A. O. I. / Spagna Medaglia della Campagna di Spagna Which of the books above do fit my needs better? It seems that book #3 deals with peacetime awards, is that true? On the other hand, those books seem difficult to find. Could anybody tell me a good source? Thanks in advance.