arrestanddevelopment

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Hi , Just picked this group up to a Polish Paratrooper. Jump wings are numbered 1363 combat wreath 1234 from the grouping it appears he was wounded and was an officer. If anyone can add details ,i would love to hear from you !! Thanks Steve

Thanks Ferg for that interesting anaylis. Just for information the oval plate does curve into the crown well ,the same as a Juncker airgunners badge. and the eagle is seperate from the plate as i cleaned away encrusted dirt/verdigris and old polish from around the eragle which uncovered a slight gap ;where the badge had buckled. ...as i stated iam exstactic to have this gem in my aviation collection as really dont think i will ever get another !! All the best Steve

Reading through "Imerial Sky" by Stephen Previtera he details an Imerial flyers badge of unknown maker, but suspected to be by Wilhelm Deumer. Although similiar to Juncker dies used are different under close inspection. The ribbon has a boxed crimped design more detailed than Juncker,also to the upper ribbon strand on the right,is a prominent eye shaped hollow which does not appear on Juncker flight badges of WW1. So as was correctly pointed out it is not a Juncker badge. rather i believe it is a period made WW1 Bavarian Airgunners badge by the suspected maker Deumer. My evidence !! The die design of the ribbon matches ,though my badge is more worn in parts ,those details specified by the author match my badge . Also construction is typically period . All the best Steve

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When i aquired the badge,the crown was crushed in at an angle the,pin was bent and angled and the body of the badge slightly crushed. The badge was found in a junk box together with other period junk ....and the seller was not aware exactly what it was as they do not sell militaria. It was my choice to carefuly re shape the crown and straightened the pin and the body of the badge,without damaging it further .Upon inspection the revits would have been originally flush with the piece,but due to the badge being buckled,see in picture where the main badge is comming away from the oval disk thgis has raised and dipped slightly . The eagles foot in obscured by old gunk but yes the design is there ...,much of the badge is covered in verdigris ,but i prefere not to clean it .I am happy with this badge and i cannot fault it when comparing it ,construction or aging ...iam happy its an a Original Bavarian Airgunners badge ,...would be nice to pin down 100% the maker .....iam still leaning towards it being a 1918 issue,rather than post war ...but then thats just my opinion,and as such am very happy its in my collection of WW1 aviation badges.....looking forward to further discussion and debate regarding this .. here are some better pics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all the best steve

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Being a skeptic is fine ,but its always worth judging evidence in its entirety before a conclusion . I am looking forward to hearing from other aviation collectors as i think the badge is worthy of further discussion and others opinion. kind regards Steve

The bird is actually a near exact match ,i compared it with my own prussian airgunners,the bavarian though is more worn and battered which does obscure detail and shape a little ,it had been partially crushed at some point . Iam happy its not a copy and though you may have quality concerns ...it has a lot more going for it than against it !!! even down to the crown being cut out !! Iv studdied it under high magnification and i can fault it when handling it !! ....because this one has turned up, dont dismiss it straight away ..there were only 600 or so airgunners who qualified so whats going to be the survival ratio ?? Sadly pictures dont always do things justice !! I have sent Jaba ,Alex a number of pics so please feel free to carry on the thread ,all the best steve

1/one pice stamping for badge note the slight gap/split in the second picture. 2/ note the rivets....yes definetly there !!! 3/Note backing plate from pics. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 4/ note pin construction !! correct as far as iam aware !! 5/aging is consistant and not chemical ages. 6/badge is die stamped 7/pin width size is correct and same as Prussian Airgunners badge.

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Hi all, Ok The rivet bolts are certainly there..certainly not cast !! and it is constructed the same way as the prussian. !!! it even has correct sized pin,rear curveture to the pin,and catch is correct. Badge is die stamped and eagle has good depth/ regards Steve

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Yes nothing like jumping the gun !!! :unsure:

would be pleased to email pics if someone could be so kind as to format them..my pc skills arnt the best !! thanks steve

Just thought i would share... This old bird slightly battered and well worn,upper cross missing as is often the case ,and the pin clipped short ???? maybe to place on a memorial cushion ..who knows ?? This ones been through the mill ....but definetly original and period !! Never seen an issue type to the Bavarian Airforce.... I know the purchase Prussian types are rarely seen,and the " issue" types even harder to come by..so a Bavarian" issued "Airgunners badge ..pretty unique i think ....only 600 odd Bavaian Airgunners served during the war ..so survival rate of a Bavarian issued airgunner badge during the short lived existance of this qualification badge are rare !!! well hopefully you like !!! All the best guys and girls steve

Hi, Russian imperial medals are not my field of interest.Owned this for ages so thought i would seek a bit of advice ..... Medal appears genuine, slightly confused as numbers and class are engraved ??? any advise as age and originality etc greatfully recieved. thanks steve

Hi, In the first instance,i have been trying to establish when the eagle was used without an escutcheon, and with sword and sceptre , i have located images which relate to Holy Roman Empire 962-1806 (Germany) during this time this design of eagle in this form was used. seems i have been barking up the wrong tree !!! and the military dispatch box dated 1721 was not austrian rather Germany pre 1806. It seems logical then that my badge pre dates 1806. This would be logical as this design of hat plate matches other shape designs of that period see British Waterloo Shako plates used up to 1816. So German pre 1806 ??????? Can anyone else add some more input on this subject ?? Thanks All the best Steve

Hi Colin, I am interesting to know your reasoning on this statement. My guess being as follows. The design is similiar to allied shako plates of the period,see British waterloo shako plates. The eagle holds a sword and some type of rod??? the only design of this i was able to locate was found on a military dispatch box dated 1721 Austrian... all the best steve