demir

It is the 98th anniversary of Canakkale invasion. 24-25.4.1915

We had the Dawn Service last night.

In 1934 Ataturk wrote a moving tribute to those heroes-ANZACs who shed their bloods and to their mothers.

This is an important message from the President of the young Turkish Republic to his old enemies but new friends.

There is nothing to add.

LEST WE FORGET

Demir

Hi,

Sorry to bring it to your attention the Crimean war lasted from October 4, 1853 to March 30, 1856. According to the dates you gave Muzzarelli was 9 years old when the war started. Still he could have received it for his services in a later date when he was in the military if he ever served the Ottomans.

What is "a member of the Legion of Honor of the Turkish Order of Medjidie" ? Is this a club for those who was awarded the Order or the fans of the Order?

As far as I know there is no list in our hands.

Regards

Demir

In my book The Turkish War Medal I showed a War Medal Document which had 4 lines. After publishing the book, Hector (GMIC Member) has send me a TWM Document which had 3 lines. (In the pictures below the difference between 3 and 4 lines are shown in red)(Blues are "you" which is not found in the 3 line documents, instead there is a blank space)

After that, I found out more of these 3 line documents and finally bought one (I only gave half of the price asked) which belongs to a Bulgarian Brigadier (Ottoman Turkish: Mirliva) Janko Draganoff. (Purple colour is used to fill out spaces in the 3 line document)

In the 3 line document the paragraph ends without the word (Bundan) at the end of the 3rd line.

Here I share with you the original document and the Ottoman Turkish, Turkish and English versions. An original translation of the document made by the diplomats at the Ottoman Legation in Sofia while presenting the Medal is also shared below.

Please also notice that; in the 3 line document there is another blank space in the 3rd line which has to be filled out, this blank space was replaced by “YOU” in the 4 line document instead of writing a name or a title or a courtesy title,like in this document.

Also note that the document was given on behalf of the Sultan by Enver Pahsa as mentioned in my correction thread :

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/53717-the-turkish-war-medal-a-book-review/page-2#entry541606

What is this 3 line document, is it original? Yes it is original and IMHO there are 2 options:

1. These 3 line documents were the earlier samples when the Medal was still given sparingly and people had no worries about filling in the 3rd blank space in the 3rd line.

1. Or these were given to the allies without the 4th line, because the 4th line advise the citizens how to behave after receiving this award “So that / from now on you will continue to carry out your duties within law in the best way possible and spend special efforts to receive praises and to reach higher levels.” (But this is Enver Pasha who thought he had the authority to give advice to everybody)

If these 3 line documents were given to the allies who were not citizens, then how come lots of allies have 4 line documents?

Then we may say that 3 line documents are the earlier types and Enver Pasha decided to add some advice to the citizens in the later 4 line version ?

Best wishes

Demir

Errata list for the book THE TURKISH WAR MEDAL:

Please note the difference in the translation of the TWM Document.

PAGES: 47,77,78,81,82

OLD: … you are granted the War Medal by our esteemed imperial majesty, his royal highness Sultan.

NEW: ... you are granted the War Medal on behalf of holy sublime imperial majesty, His Royal Highness Sultan.

Even though I explained in the book that Enver Pasha changed the Regulation of the War Medal and replaced the word "Berat" (Document signed by the Sultan) with "Vesika" (Document) in order to make it possible for him to sign it (the documents have his seal and signature on them), I missed the the old Turkish word "nam-ı" in the original document while translating (actually it means "on behalf of").

Thanks

Demir

Hi,

After commenting 2 professional dealers as Paul and Avşar, it may not be appropriate but may I ask ? Are the photos given above for the Ottoman Mejidi, reverse and obverse, exactly same position?

If they are, the centre piece is not in the correct position, the top layer for sure is not. But it is an original piece.

Demir

Normally one must not make any changes, as the medals of other countries.

Every medal has a special ribbon.

For example The Greek War Medal's ribbon has 4 red and 3 green lines.

I am sharing the picture of the medal which is in my collection.

Most of the medals are red with green lines at the edges like the Liyakat (Merit) medal.

Regards

Demir

Hi,

For the Ottoman NCO ranks please see:

History of NCO Rank Insignias in TURKEY
WRITTEN by: Air Sergeant Major Salim DİKDURAN

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/files/file/40-nco-rank-insignia-used-in-the-turkish-army-since-1876/

or see the chart below by Air Sergeant Major Salim DİKDURAN

According to this chart 1914-1918 period:

Onbaşı (Corporal) - No stripe

Çavuş (Sergeant) - 1 stripe

Başçavuş Muavini - 2 stripe

Başçavuş (Sergeant Major) - 3 stripe

Nice one.

One can find especially this Greek War Medal with a hand crafted silver suspension instead of a red ribbon with green stripes.

Yes the names are all written in Turkish spelling like the first document:

(Sergeant Major Folker) (Turkish spelling) (In the wreath) (Ober maschinist maat Völker on SMS Baden)

--------------------

"Muavin" in Turkish means 'assistant'. So "Başçavuş Muavini" (sergeant major's assistant) is rank lower then 'Sergeant Major' - (Başçavuş) and according to Wikipedia 'Sergeant Major' is lower then Offiziersstellvertreter (Warrant Officer).

Second Document:

I think Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler was serving under the Army Auto unit no: 715 in Palestine where the Yıldırım Armies Group was deployed at the end of the war.

Regards

Demir

Başçavuş Muavini Paul Rusler (In the wreath)

Bin üç yüz otuz iki ve otuz üç seneleri harbinde vezaif-i mevdûanda hüsn-i hidmet ve say-ü gayret göstermiş olduğunuzdan dolayı nam-ı akdes hümayun hazret-i padişahiye olarak sana harb madalyası verildi. Bundan böyle dahi her halde kanun dairesinde ifa-yı hüsn-ü hidmetle iktisab-ı feyz ve memduhiyyete sa’y ü gayret eyleyesin.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal (Enver Minister of War)

( Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler) (In the wreath)

During the war in the years one thousand nine hundred fourteen and fifteen While implementing your duties given to you /

for your Good services and continous effort /

you are granted the War Medal by our esteemed imperial majesty, his royal highness Sultan. So that/ from now on you will continue to carry out your duties within law in the best way possible and spend special efforts to receive praises and to reach higher levels.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal (Enver Minister of War)

Reverse:

Ordusu Yıldırım

Kolordusu

Fırkası 715 numrolu ordu otomobil kolundan

Alayı

Taburu

Bölüğü

(Memleketi)

Başçavuş Muavini

Paul Rusler

signatures

30 Nisan 1334 Yıldırım Kumandanlığı (seal)

Reverse:

Army : Thunderbolt

Corps

Division Army Auto Corps no: 715

Regiment

Battalion

Company

{ THE PLACE OF BIRTH }

Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler

Signatures

30 April 1918 Yıldırım (Thurderbolt) Headquarters Seal

The first document with holes on the right:

In old Turkish:

Başçavuş Folker (In the wreath) (Turkish Spelling)

Bin üç yüz otuz iki ve otuz üç seneleri harbinde Bader sefine-i harbiyesinde iken menafi-i devlet-i aliye emrinde hidemat-ı takrirkarane göstermiş olduğunuzdan dolayı nam-ı akdes hümayun hazret-i padişahiye olarak sana harb madalyası verildi. Bundan böyle dahi her halde kanun dairesinde ifa-yı hüsn-ü hidmetle iktisab-ı feyz ve memduhiyyete sa’y ü gayret eyleyesin.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal of Harbiye Nazırı Enver

(Sergeant Major Folker) (Turkish spelling) (In the wreath) (Ober maschinist maat Völker on SMS Baden)

During the war in the years one thousand nine hundred fourteen and fifteen while you were serving in the warship Bader./

for your highly admired services for our sublime country /

you are granted the War Medal by our esteemed imperial majesty, his royal highness Sultan. So that/ from now on you will continue to carry out your duties within law in the best way possible and spend special efforts to receive praises and to reach higher levels.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal (Enver Minister of War)

Reverse: In the box from left:

Ordusu

Kolordusu

Fırkası

Alayı

Taburu

Bölüğü

(Memleketi)

Bader Sefine-i Harbiyesinden

Makine Başçavuş Almanyalı

Folker

In the box from left:

Army

Corps

Division

Regiment

Battalion

Company

{ THE PLACE OF BIRTH }

Machinist Sergeant Major Folker of Warship Bader from Germany

IMO it is not S&L but Beco. Please compare hinge, catch and pin. Especially hinge do not match with S&L. Nice example.

Regards

Box is new but nice example of BB&Co.

BB&Co star in red case

Thanks Lew.

Campaign bars:

Kafkasya (Caucasia)

Çanakkale

Kanal (Suez Channel)

A nice set of Jeweler made campaign bars, enameled and with special construction on the back for 'safety' purpose. Shame that someone cleaned them with some sort of acid material

Lew,

Thank you very much for this set of TWMs, especially this AWS (Alfred Werner & Sohne) and 2 other Austrian made beautiful TWMs and ribbon bars.

Please also share with us if you may the ribbon bar with the Salvation Medal minatures.

Best wishes

Demir

Thanks Chris,

I asked Lew to share with us his collection of ribbons and TWMs.

Regards

Demir

This is a beautiful medal bar Lew. Thanks for sharing it.

Would you also share with us your TWMs and medal and ribbon bars in Turkey forum ?

Regards

Demir

Hi,

Between 1909 and 1916 military doctors had black collars with esculape signs and pharmacists had bay leaf.

A doctor (left) and a pharmacist lieutenant. (photo1)

Doctors and NCO in the field with red crescent arm band according to the international regulation.(photo 2)

After 1916, the colour of the collars were same colour as the uniform but had purplish red colour band at the edge (photo 3) with esculape snake (at the corner of photo 3) signs.

Red Crescent Doctors and Officials had a red crescent sign on their uniform collars.

According to the regulation Doctors have been appointed with the rank of Captain and Medical students have been appointed with lower NCO ranks and those who had good employment records have been promoted to lieutenants after six months.

Red Crescent Doctor Captain İsmail Hakkı while he was at the Eastern (Turkey) Front. (Photo 4) (collection Iclal Orses)

Red Crescent also had Officials with Red Crescent signs on their uniforms regardless to their education. In the photo: A law faculty

graduate journalist Feridun Kandemir who was a Red Crescent Official in a Red Crescent Hospital in Medina. (Photo 5) (source Tosun Saral)

Nurses (Photo 6-7)

(What ever I do system insisted in arranging the photos according its own wish so: photos top: 7-6-5 middle: 3-1 bottom: 2-4 )

Selam Komutanım,

BB&Co. has also used silvered brass. This is good BB&Co.

Regards

Demir

Merhaba Komutan,

From the photos I can say that, it is a good BB&Co. Enjoy it.

What made you think it is not?

Regards

Demir

Dear Nzef1940,

Actually this is the big question, going back to the old argument, what is fake, old, strange etc.?

If it is made today or 70's it is a fake, a replica copy, but if it is made in 30's it is a German or Austrian made copy or example.

This is the main problem. But I don't want to get into this subject again now.

There are more knowledgeable friends in this Forum who know foreign made TWMs better then me , I am sure they will contribute to this thread.

IMO the catch resembles the Ludenscheid companies but it is not S&L or E.S. because the hinge is different.

It may be from 30's and German made but not a new one because new ones usually has a hook catch.

Regards

Demir

Hello,

Recent additions to my TWM and tor soldier collection:

1. Turkish officer with flag

2. Turkish War medal original thick red paper package-envelope (bottom width 55 mm x top width 74 mm x height 68 mm)

Regards

Demir

Hi,

Here is a website where you can find all toughras and information about them.

http://www.tugra.org/en/index.asp

They may not resemble the toughras on the silverware but at least give an idea.

Demir

Hi guys, I found one nice picture, taken in 1938. A Bulgarian NCO with long service, Balkan wars and WW1 veteran, along with the Bulgarian orders and the German one, also has a TWM on ribbon.

Theodor,

Thanks for the very rare photo of a Bulgarian NCO with the TWM.

I will share it in my Turkish TWM site if you don't mind mentioning your name "Theodor".

Regards

Demir