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    PAVEL

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    Posts posted by PAVEL

      Order St Anna 2nd class gold civil division - Mark on ring

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Hello,

      Back after several months of inactivity !

      Maybe someone can help me : it concerns the marks on the ring of a St Anna 2nd class gold civil division manufactured by A.Keibel (AK)

      All my gold orders have on the ring either the kokoshnik mark (56 & woman head) before 1899, if I remember well, or 56 & St Petersburg crossed anchors before 1899.

      I have been proposed such an order with AK on the ring without russian gold mark + ET mark (french mark for 14 ct gold applied if item sold at an auction).

      Never seen that before, is-it really unusual ? The order is pure russian made with original marks under the enamel (eagle & AK).

      Thanks for your help.

      Regards

      Pavel

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      My russian collection

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Hello,

      You have got a very impressive collection. I like more particulary the St Stanislas order with X. Have you got the box to go with this medal ?

      Christophe

      Hi Christophe,

      Yes, the St Stanislas 1st class w/swords in bronze is quite rare, I do have the corresponding star but no box (One day I found one marked with the manufacturer address in Petrograd, but too expensive)

      The same cross exists enameled on both sides.

      Regards.

      Pavel

      0

      My russian collection

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Let's try with some pictures - by changing the size - yes, Paul they are JPEG.

      White Eagle, gold, by Eduard (1899-1903)

      St Anne 3rd cl.with swords for non christians, gold, by Osipov (1904-1916) ... with its original box marked ... with swords

      St Stanislaus 1st cl. with swords, bronze, by Eduard (WW1) ... with its star.

      Will work on next pictures ... next week-end !

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      My russian collection

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Let's try with some pictures - by changing the size - yes, Paul they are JPEG.

      White Eagle, gold, by Eduard (1899-1903)

      St Anne with swords for non christians, gold, by Osipov (1904-1916) ... with its original box marked ... with swords

      St Stanislaus with swords, bronze, by Eduard (WW1) ... with its star.

      Will work on next pictures ... next week-end !

      0

      Researching recipients of the Cross of St George

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      A quick question, is it possible to find out the details of a recipient of the Cross of St George from the award number, in the same way that we can find out about Soviet era recipients ? Are these papers available ?

      Grateful if anyone could provide information in this regard.

      Cheers,

      Paul

      Maybe that book could help :

      "Military Order of the Holy Great Martyr George the Triumphant, Listing of the Recipients, 1769-1920", V. Shabanov

      http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=12874

      Pavel

      0

      Russia/Poland Order of the White Eagle

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Greetings. Thank you for your input.

      The "expert" I was speaking about is an expert in Polish medals and Orders, of which the Order of the White Eagle was and still is. Russia "adopted" the Order as its own after the Third Partition in 1795 - yet it remains a POLISH Order. And the expert I refer to has been collecting, researching and writing about Polish Medals and Orders for SIXTY years. As such, I trust his opinion more than most others. And he lives in the US, after emigrating from Poland after WW2. I am in France.

      Interestingly though, another world-renown medal expert with over 40 years experience just wrote to me about an hour ago that it looks as if the Order was manufactured in Siam in the early 19th century, based on general design specifications obtained by Asiatic leaders who visited Poland and/or Russia in the late 18th century. He mentioned this to me because the hallmark looks to him, based on his experience, to be Asiatic.

      Regarding Auction House experts, I do not rely on them. Their objective is to sell. The two experts I mentioned are not sellers, but avid collectors and researchers. Thus, I trust their opinions more than most.

      Ultimately, none of us may ever know the truth. But for now, I am more than comfortable relying on two people who have a combined 100 years of experience.

      All for now. Thank you.

      Linas

      0

      Russia/Poland Order of the White Eagle

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Hello Sergey.

      Thank you for your thoughts. I though humbly disagree. I had the top expert in the world on Polish medals and orders given in the last 400 years (which would include 1795-1918, while Poland was under Russian rule) inspect this Order closely. I though cannot mention his name, as per his request (if you know Polish medals and orders, you know who I am speaking about).

      He and I both know that it was not made in Poland or Russia, but, in his expert opinion, it is an 18th century model made according to the specifications of the officer or nobleman who was awarded this Breast Star. This was often done in the last several centuries.

      For example, someone who was awarded the French Legion d'Honneur during the reign of Napoleon I, Louis Philippe, or Napoleon III, would receive the original medal, then go to their favorite jeweler to make a nicer one, typically adding diamonds to the star's "bulbs" and including emeralds in the green wreath. Does this thus make it a fake? No, not at all. Actually, it makes it more valuable, especially if you collect French medals like I do. I have at least 20 Legion d'Honneur 1st and 2nd Empire, and not one looks exactly like another.

      This is not done anymore, but was common practice during the 18th to early 20th century.

      The issue though is that we may never know for sure.

      Linas

      Hello,

      I do not like to disappoint collector and did not want to be "too direct" when I said "never seen that type of breast star" for the russian White Eagle order, but as Sergey I must say this is a fake or a fantasy order.

      After collecting for 30 years, I have never seen a metal russian breast star of the 18th century - the first known metal breast stars are dated from the beginning of the 19th century and all of private manufacturers (all the official stars delivered until 1855 were embroidered). After some researches, the hallmark ("octopus") is apparently totally unknown. About "top expert" I would say that the real experts in russian orders are very few on the market ... especially in France where it seems you are from, best experts are very often the collectors themselves but not the declared experts on auctions (see Drouot "funny" experts) or the "experts" merchants.

      If not russian made, your breast star could have been made in Germany, Austria or France (mainly those three) but those are generally quite easy to identify and yours does not look like as any of those european models.

      That does not mean, if you are the owner, that nobody will be interested in your star (we see so very amazing & surprising transactions on a well known auction site :-)

      0

      Unknown russian star

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Павел, это солдатский полковой знак Л-Гв.Волынского полка (утв.1911), почему-то присобаченный на звезду Deutsche Adlerorden

      OK, I found this badge afterwards into a documentation and of course understood this was a strange star & probably unique smile.gif

      Thanks & regards

      For members not reading russian (very few I think smile.gif)

      Soldier Badge of the Volynski Guards Regiment "stuck" on a german Eagle order breast star

      0

      Gold 56 hallmark , original ?

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Hello all,

      At a next auction in Europe will be sold a St Vladimir 3rd class and I do not know what to think of that gold 56 hallmark on the ring ?

      Quite unusual shape of St. Petersburg assay inspection stamp (should be crossed anchors and scepter !!!), no ? See picture Vlad3_1 . Also 56 is on the right of hallmark (never seen before)

      I presume this is a Julius Keibel order but not sure.

      Thanks for sharing your feeling.

      For comparison on next topic am joining a picture of a St Vladimir 3rd class by A. Keibel (1882-1898) with a clear hallmark "56 + St Petersburg stamp" (gold hallmark before 1899)

      See picture Vlad3_AK : St Petersburg stamp is neat with anchors & scepter and 56 on the left side of hallmark as usually seen.

      Pavel

      0

      Cross 1st class St Anne Julius Keibel

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Hello all

      Attached a picture of a cross St Anne 1st class presented as made by Julius Keibel and sold this last week-end in Germany.

      Imperial Eagle under the enamel of the reverse upper arm.

      IK under the enamel of the reverse lower arm.

      Superb quality but ... :

      - Size across is 60mm !! Never seen bigger than 53mm for a 1st class

      - Gold hallmark on eyelet is 56 and kokoshnik facing right (something wrong, no ?)

      Thanks for your comments

      Pavel

      I tried to upload the picture of the reverse but it seems that the maximum size is 70 k (one picture) : how to be able to upload a 2nd picture (other post ?)

      0

      Russian Imperial Orders at auction

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Hi Yankee,

      Yes the Foerster collection was a top one ! When you think that this guy started his collection when he was 65 in 1978 ! By the way do you have the results of that auction ?

      Another fabulous collection sold in M?nchen in 2000 : "Russian orders of a titled family" ... only first class orders !!!! .

      For those interested :

      Recent or next auction catalogs in Europe :

      Oct. 25 Moscow http://www.kabinet-auktion.com/auction/8528/ (all russian items)

      Oct. 31 Germany http://www.andreas-thies.de/kataloge/36_auktion.html

      ******************************

      Nov.8 Moscow http://www.znak-auction.ru/live/1/ (all russian items)

      Nov. 15 Hamburg http://www.zeige.com/en/index2.html (100 imp. russ. items)

      Nov. 19 Vienna http://www.dorotheum.at/auktionen/auktions...chnungen-2.html (30 imp. russ. items)

      Nov.20 London http://www.spink.com/auctions/pdf/default.asp (only 6 imp.russ. items !)

      Nov 29 London http://www.coins-la-galerie-numismatique.c...tion.php?aid=12 (240 imp. russ. orders & badges)

      Nov. 29 Moscow http://www.numismat.ru/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?auct=54 (all russian items)

      Regards

      Pavel

      0

      Russian Imperial Orders at auction

      in Russia: Imperial

      Posted

      Hi Veteran

      I did not know UBS was selling at auction ! After a quick look it seems that almost all lots were sold and several quite uncommon orders went sky high (unfortunately it will be always the case for those pieces). Let's wait for the results of the numerous auctions in November.

      About the "Morton & Eden" auction, never seen so many terms as : "sold as copy","later assembled", "modern reproduction","possibly unofficial","later medallions","enamel repaired","altered & refurbished","later applied or unofficial swords","heavily restored" ! Or more honest description than at the other auctions ! Anyway will not attend that one !

      Regards

      Pavel

      0
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