dwmosher

A new addition to this thread.  Hopefully, the combination is unique enough to identify an otherwise unknown company-level Prussian officer.

Dave

Johnny

Don't touch a thing!  It is a perfect  officer's  1897 pattern Litewka for DR 19.  It is not a 1915 pattern Klienerrock...

Dave

Prussian field artillery in the top photo and infantry (most likely Prussian) in the bottom photo.

Thank you, Daniel.  Did either of them also have any other breast awards or were wounded?  I have had this tunic for many years.   The ribbons indicate the HOHX, EK2 and Hessian Bravery Medal.   The awards I placed on the breast loops are a good fit, but with no name, it is just conjecture.  Just not sure of the wound badge...

Dave

Wie gehts:

Does anyone have a list of leutnants for this regiment who would have been awarded HOHX, EK1, EK2, Hessian Bravery Medal and the Hessian Krieger Ehrenzeichen in Eisen?

Thanks

Dave

The cuff is fine.  As i said, a wide variety of simplifications were done for the tunics, including getting rid of the prior cuff configurations (including litzen) and going to a barrel cuff, which is typically piped.  I have provided an example of a simplified tunic with guard litzen (M-1910 style) and piped barrel cuffs.  The photo provided by GreyC shows an 4. GRzF officer wearing the regulation M-1910 waffenrock (Swedish cuffs vs. Brandenburg cuffs...).  The backing on the collar litzen would be the blue I posted above.

Yes I saw he had the Johannater Order, too.  However, if we go under the premise he would have worn the uniform insignia of his prior regiment (GGR Nr. 5), he would have worn this litzen (if he wore M-15 insignia as in your tunic)

Yes, it was also called the 'Gallipoli Star".  I'm not sure if I follow your thoughts concerning you other comment...

I would think they would take on the boards for the new unit, but keep all of the uniform insignia from the previous unit (litzen, cuff, etc).  I think the horizontal badge on the right would be the Turkish Half Moon.  The German-made high-end Half Moon badges had a horizontal pin...

Initially, I looked at the 1912 Rangelist to determine who had the Johanniter Order.  I looked in the 1914 Ranglist and found another candidate, Maj. Frhr. v. Lyncker who ultimately commanded the 5. Reserve Infanterie Brigade.

Anything is possible, but he was with GGR Nr. 5 prior to the war and during most of the war (he is with that unit in his photo).   He assumed command of GGR Nr. 4 on 7/26/18

Very nice!  A major with GGR Nr.4.  Based on his rank and the Johanniter Order, he could be narrowed down to a few possibilities (unless the tunic is named, already).  At a first cut, I would think he was either Maj. v. Pommer Esche (ultimately commander of JR85 and killed on 9/13/16) or Maj. v. der Hardt (ultimately commander of JR 408). There was also a Maj. Gr. zu Reventlow, but he died on 10/24/14, taking him off the list.

Your  privately purchased M-1910 waffenrock has officer M-1915 collar litzen to be worn on the Bluse.  When you state that the tunic has piped "French cuffs", I am presuming you are describing a barrel cuff.  If this is the case, 1915 was a transitional period where waffenrocks were simplified (cuffs being one of the simplifications) and the Bluse was being introduced.  As I noted above, the tunic was an officer's private purchase item, so I don't see a problem with the insignia being on it.  What do the cuffs look like and what are the shoulder boards on the tunic?

 Here are the M-1910 officer collar tabs for Prussian Guard Regiments zu Fuss and Guard Grenadier Regiments:

White -  1.GRzF  and GGR1 (w/ Doppellitzen); 5.GRzF and GGR5 (w/ Old Prussian Litzen)

Red - 2.GRzF and GGR2

Yellow - 3.GRzF and GGR3

Blue - 4.GRzF and GGR4

For Prussian 1. GRzF thru 5.GRzF,  there was an order of precedence for  shoulder boards and straps with no numbers or cyphers (white, red, yellow and blue).  For M-10 officer Feldrocks, this also translated to the base tab color on the collar.  1.GRzF thru 4.GRzF would use the same muted metallic Doppelitzen on the tabs and utilized Swedish cuffs.  The 5.GRzF has a white base color tab but a single "Old Prussian" style pointed litzen bar and a Brandenburg cuff.  The Prussian Guard Grenadier units, GGR1 thru GGR5, utilized this same order of precedence for shoulder boards (white, red, yellow and blue), which also translated to the base tab color for officer M-10 Feldrocks. GGR1 thru GGR4 would use the same muted metallic Doppellitzen, wore specific cyphers on the shoulder boards and all would use the Brandenburg cuff.  The GGR5 has a white base collar tab but a single "Old Prussian" style pointed litzen bar and no cyphers on the boards.  The Guard Fusilier Regiment used a yellow base tab for the officer M-10 Feldrock, with muted metallic Doppellitzen and Swedish cuffs. All of the units above used brass buttons except 1.GRzF, 5.GRzF and G Fus.R, which used silver buttons.   

Does anyone know what this emblem was used on or for?  It is stamped with two soldered prongs on the back.  It is the size of a cap cockade (approx 40 mm in height).

Thanks

Dave

This is my Kraftfahrer Lederlitewka.  The manufacturer of the coat was Mohr & Speyer.

Interesting!  My hunch would be he was with 1. Infanterie-Regt. Konig

Chris

My money is 1. Feldartillerie-Regt. Prinz-Regent Luitpold

Thank you all for your responses. 

Chris,

Three of the four GGR2 hauptmanns killed in 1914 had been transferred to RIR 15.

v. Wedemeyer 8/23/14 at Gozee

v. Kathen 11/17/14 at Apern

Bock v. Wulfingen  11/17/14 at Apern

Thanks, Dave. 

Another potential candidate is Haupt. Bock v. Wulfingen.  Promoted to hauptmann in 1910.  Awards included Austrian Franz Joseph Orden- Ritterkreuz,.  Killed on 11/17/1914 with RIR 15. 

Any idea what the breast badge could be on the tunic?

Jens,

Thanks for the correction on v. Oertzen's name. 

Laurentius,

I am posting a picture of the tunic with an EK1 suspended only from the top loop.  You can see the outside edges of the cross are actually inside the four loops!.  I know that v. Hagen was awarded the Offizierkreuz for the Franz Joseph Orden, but I have never seen hooks to the side for this award.

 Wie Gehts:

I was wondering if the original owner of this unnamed tunic could be identified with limited information presented here.  This is the M1910 waffenrock for a hauptmann with  GGR2.  First, I noticed that the tunic was used in the field (wear and well tailored repairs at the bottom of the skirt) and he has an EK2, but no EK1.  Although he did have a breast badge, the dimensions for the loops are much longer/wider than any EK1.   He did also have a fairly extensive ribbon bar (I presume 6 awards) for no EK1,  which I presume were pre-war awards. So, was this chap killed early in the war, or was he possibly detailed as a staff officer early in the war and couldn't earn the EK1.

From what I gather from rank lists, here are two possibilities:

Haupt v. Hagen, who ended the war as a Oberstlt aD.  He was promoted to hauptmann in 1905, so he had been around to gather some awards and was sent to the  Adjutant Generals Command of the XXI AR in January 1914.  His awards included the EK2 (presumably), Roter Adler-Order 4. Kl, Koniglicher Kronen-Orden 4. Kl, Johanniterorden - Ehrenritter, Belgische Leopold Orden - Ritterkreuz, Osterreich Orden der Eisernen Krone 3. Kl, Osterreich Franz Joseph Orden - Offizierkreuz

Haupt v. Dertzen, who died on 8/21/1914. He was promoted to hauptmann in 1908.  His awards included the EK2 (presumably), Verdienstorden Philipps des Grossmutigen - Ritterkreuz 2. Kl, Osterreich Orden der Eisen Krone 3. Kl, Osterreich Franz Joseph Orden - Ritterkreuz

I am sure there are other candidates, but these seemed the most logical. Also, these are the awards provided in the 1914 Rang-Liste, so there may be additional awards I don't have.

Thanks

Dave

Thanks, Alex.  The Brunswick noncombatant award didn't make much sense...

Dave

All

I am hoping to put a name with this ribbon bar.  I am presuming this was a highly decorated senior enlisted (army NCO or navy deck officer) from Saxony with some unique awards:

Saxon St Heinrich medal, Prussian EK2, Saxon long service medal/ Brunswick Ernst-August 1914 cross-combatant, colonial campaign medal, China campaign medal, Brunswick Ernst-August 1914-noncombatant, Turkish Liyakat military merit medal (or Medjidie Star) w/ swords, and Thailand Order of the White Elephant.

Regards

Dave