Mike

Gentlemen , Thank you so much for helping with this . When it's over , I get the unpleasant job of calling and letting her know ...and I'm not looking forward to it . Anyway ..from the sound of it , only the Bavarian Pilot has a slim chance of being good (and the rings) but you'd need better pictures. Please let me know what angles or closeups you need and I'll post them 

Thanks --Mike

I took the closeup shots , also zoomed in but I did not adjust the color. In some cases I used a Magnifying Glass to try showing the markings  ...I only saw one marked 800 - Here are both sides of the case 

1st Badge --

2nd

3d Badge

4th

5th Badge 

6th Badge --

The Rings and , The Stickpin looks like an LDO # 

any ideas on value would also be appreciated  ...The details are crisp , they are very well made , but I have no idea what lengths the fakers have gone to since I've never dealt with these badges before at all so , I have nothing to compare them to. And as I mentioned , My Collection and Library is packed up so, I have no Books to research them. I appreciate your help guys !!

Thanks Alex ..I expected there'd be issues and , I hesitated even opening up his TR case. She did point to the case and said " I bought him that Blue Max on line and know it's not real ...but we couldn't afford a real one" ..so, she's been very honest from the start . I'll take out the case and post closeups of each side later tonight ...and thanks for the help. You're right ..she's older and counting on some money to help with expenses. 

any tips on how to Vet these posters ?

Hello Gents , It's been a while  ....Unfortunately an old friend and fellow collector passed away 4 months ago and his Widow had me pick up his Collection. She asked for help selling it all off since he told her not to trust any of the Dealers. His main focus was WW1 and at one point I remember him having 15 Spiked Helmets ..I only found 1 ...many of his items seemed to be missing and she didn't remember him selling anything off. One of his favorite Blades was a Chained SS he bought from Chip Gambino  ...it was nowhere to be found. Not even one Sword was in the group. He was in bad shape at the end and the Meds took their toll so , I'm wondering if he hid things around the House or, sold things off without telling her. She plans on moving so, she told me she'll search the House to make sure ...if he did hide anything , I hope she finds it.  Anyway  ...my main focus has been WW2 for over 50 years so , these WW1 Badges are not in my "comfort zone" ...And to complicate things, we're in the process of escaping from NY and moving to NH and my whole collection is packed up including all of my Reference Books ..I'm working blind on these and would appreciate any help vetting them. He left her a book listing what he paid for items and what he felt they were worth but , she can't find the book right now.  The main thing right now is knowing if his Pilot Badges are correct ....I dread telling a Widow that her Husband left her hi-end fakes. Let me know what you think and if you want any specific angles or closeups posted. Thanks 

(I'm attaching large files so, I'm only allowed 2 per post)

Reverse.

Hi Pierce ,

Thanks for posting the closeups ...

Howard is a very good friend of mine . I’ve known him for years and unlike many of our “illustrious” dealers in this Hobby , I know he’d never misrepresent anything in the name of a Buck. I didn’t have any problems with the Medals themselves ….but the Paper Tag didn’t make sense to me at all.

I’m glad Tom posted his examples so we have something to compare now.

Thanks for coming back on that Thread

I'll have to get better close up shots since ..this won't do.

These Bars were recently sold on another site ..but now they are being questioned. One Collector feels they are repros from Austria.

I’ll admit that I’ve never seen a paper tag attached like that …any thoughts ?

Hi Gents ..Thought I'd share my latest find with you.

This is the first one I've ever had a chance to buy. It's not mint but , it sure made my day !

Chris ,

can you give me the exact name of the baby in post N°3 please.... I have a postcard of a german unit with some of these but I don`t think it is a german one , or... ?

thank you

Heiko

Hi Heiko , That's a "Lewis Gun" ...more can be found on it here --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Gun

Even deactivated or Dummy versions of this MG are not easy to find so ..Chris is very lucky to own one.

Nice shots Chris !!

I remember back when you first got the 08 ...looks like the "Family" has grown now .

What's next ? Are you going to add a Vickers to the group ?

In this alphabetized listing of all 901 holders (there were errors on the original list due to faulty fascist proofreading) I have very deliberately omitted posting the actual serial numbers:

there is absolutely NO point in providing a Master List to fakers to have for whipping out suddenly 1 out of 25 ever awarded "attributable" Badges... by the thousands of fakes each.

Hi Rick !

Thanks for posting the list but ..Personally , I think you should have "added" some creative serial numbers for the fakers to copy and we could have kept it as an inside joke. You could have started the series with # 69-i-8-1-2 ...or added a letter prefix to the number for them to copy.

That would have made spotting the repros a lot more entertaining for us.

:whistle:

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I’ve had one of the Heeresatmer backpack units for years …always thought they were an interesting example of 40’s technology but for some reason they were always overlooked by most Collectors. I was told that my example came from Norway where most of them were kept in service until the 1960’s. …I never found out if that story was true but , I’m glad I found it. I heard one sold for $2k last year so, maybe that old saying is true ---What’s overlooked yesterday is harder to find today.

Thought you’d enjoy seeing some shots of it in the case.

Just a thought but , I wonder if they could be members of the "New York Guard" which is an Official NY State authorized Militia. More can be found here -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Guard

The NYG has always used the same Uniforms reg and reserve components issue except for using "New York State" ID Tape instead of "U.S. Army" and the NY State Flag patch instead of the US Flag

Look at the Cap Badge in the photo and compare them to this --

Thanks Laurence ?The variations in Blue are very interesting and I can see where it could confuse things.One looks more Blue , one Charcoal another more black ... Each manufacturer seemed to produced their own shade ..or dies used varied ? I guess ?close enough? applied .

I run a Mess Hall and have fed everything from Reserves to Active Units. I?ve noticed a little more than a rivalry between them since many of the active Army look at the Reservists as part timers or ?Weekend Warriors?. Many in the Reserves are older and prior service so some of them look at the active Army Soldiers as ?Kids? that still have a lot to learn.

It makes me wonder how the average Soldier back then felt about the Sonderfuhrers ..In many cases I bet the Common Soldier might have seen them as make believe or temporary Officers and even regarded them with a little contempt.

? He?s not really an Officer but I have to salute him ??

And you know how the Military is ?they?d never REALLY be considered ?part of the family? so many of their regulations were probably looked at as loose guidelines.

They had a specific Job and they were specialists ?but were they given the credit they deserved ?

Just a thought

Thanks Wessel !

Here are a few more close ups of the Visor ..

I just went through this Thread -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=29537&st=0 and it?s full of non regulation examples of insignia in use by Sonderfuhrer?s . I think it?s a field that?s been overlooked for years ..and there were allowances made and definitely exceptions to the rules.

However ...I'd say the RAD Tabs were added post war since that combo just doesn't make sense to me. How are the stitched on ? any sign of another pair of Tabs being in place ? Put your finger under the Boards (where they are sewn into the shoulder) and see if there's a gap so you can stick your finger into the shoulder ...that's a quick sign that someone added the Boards to the Tunic. When most Collectors changed insignia years ago ..they never seemed to care about stitching the boards on correctly (sewn all around the base of the board)

And your Visor is a nice example ! ...that was a lucky score. Did that come with a Tunic ?

Very well done ..clean and tight

Mike, Lovely tunic and visor!

Thanks Wessel !

Here are a few more close ups of the Visor ..the band wasn't added yesterday

Hi Mike

I should rephrase my first post to read. They had a Blue Grey Waffenfarbe and no Nebenfarbes were issued. Luft Sonderfuhrer had a different way of doing things. Their Sonderfuhrer had different career levels were as the Heer did not.

Well ..."we" might have to re-think that because Piped Sf Visors were used and can be found. However , I'll add that I have only seen Piping for Medical/Propaganda and other specialized branches ..never armed branches like Infantry or Pz. They were around back in the late 60's when no one in our Hobby even had a clue as to what a Sonderfuhrer was ..so there'd be no reason what-so-ever for anyone to "create" a fake Sf Visor by carefully adding a Grey Band back then.

As we all know ..Not everything pre 45 was regulation or text Book.

How do you feel about the Green backed Eagles being used on Sf Tunics ?

Hi , Agreed and I should have phrased that differently ?The Sf ranks only used the grey piping on Shoulder Boards and did not use the color denoting their assigned branch on them. However ?the Visor seems to have been used by them to show who they were assigned to as over the years I?ve seen Sf Grey Band Visors with a various colored piping. Maybe not regulation but , neither was the green backed Eagle. Now the Eisenbahn boards you just posted are interesting because the piping they used is a darker Blue than the reg Army Grey ..maybe it?s the shot ?

I noticed Paul started a Thread on Luft Sf ?I?ll have to go back to see how they handled piping for their ranks.

Nice worn Erel

Thanks Paul ,and I agree , these are a lot harder to find than an SS Tunic . There's no sign of it ever having any Award Loops . And the Visor is named but didn't come with it ..it was a Christmas Gift from a fellow Collector (and great friend) who knew I had the Tunic and just wanted to help me complete the set ..I tried buying it from him but , he wouldn't hear of it.

It was not out of the ordinary to see a SF wearing the Grey Piped Shoulder boards and a different color on his Visor. Apparently they did not mass produce the Sf Boards with piping for every branch color and it was a lot easier to just add the grey fabric around the Visor than try producing one of each style for a limited market.

Also ..I bet there are custom Tailored Sf Tunics out there but , there was no such thing as a mass produced (or RB #'d), Army issued Sonderf?hrer Uniform ..I've only seen M36's etc that were modified by adding the grey Fabric around the Collar . It wasn't worth their time to do it since ...there was not enough demand.

For the same reason , even the Grey backed breast eagles are very rare and they would have been used by all Army Sf's if the grey couldn't be ordered.

"You just keep working on Translating that paper or building that Bridge and we'll work on getting you the right Color Insignia ..trust us"

Bill has an example for sale with a green backed Eagle --

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Uniforms/u125.htm

Here are a few shots inside of Visor --