Gustavo

Thanks guys. The radio operator medal was over ?1K by itself... so I decided to pass... heres the image from Weitze I wish someone with the knowledge and the time would write a solid book on German blade etchings. This is a real minefield for the collector. The best known and most expensive examples are the Voos factory etches we find in Heer and Luftwaffe daggers, but these specially ordered examples are more interesting to me because of the research potential and the rarity. When it comes to determining authenticity a key issue, and one not adequately addressed most times is criteria. Imperfections in the etch, for example, are often immediately judged to be evidence of a post war piece. I am not convinced that this is necessarily always the case. The myth of the perfection of German craftsmanship is behind a lot of these assertions. Again, I know very little about etches, but regarding engravings for example, varities of styles, fonts and degrees of engraving skill coexisted in the period. Materials and manufacturing in general are known to have deteriorated as the war advanced. In any case, daggers that sell for thousands of Euros (i lost track of the $ exchange rate...) will be increasingly the object of fraudulent copying. Yet, a solid set of criteria for authenticity, based on real knowledge and not speculation and inflated ego remains to be produced.

HI Paul, are you moderating this sub forum or is it Dave B? I sent the message to Dave B

Hi Paul, I ent u a private message a few days ago. Was just wandering if that didnt go through

I sent you a private message, please let me know if you got it. perhaps system not working

Heres an interesting portrait photo from my collection, showing a Kriegsmarine officer who has not yet changed the pommel on his 1929 model Reichmarine dagger, following 1938 regulations. Detail:

That was also my understanding. Given the nature and history of German military records after WW2, dogmatism in these matters is not a good approach. Exceptions exist for almost everything

"He didnt exist" Rick, I would love to hear your arguments. Why are you certain no such NCO existed in the Luftwaffe? Are you saying he didnt exist (if so how do you know) or that no one by that name was awarded the DKiG (if so how do you know) Thanks

Playing with light conditions, just before sunset last

Very nice dagger Norwest, and beautifully photographed... taking good pics of daggers, medals etc is an art in itself. You seem to have the lighting right. I myself have to take 4 or 5 photos for each I keep. Plain blades are supposed to be rare. Perhaps another member can comment on that

Thanks Rick for all your info. Perhaos its time to start looking into imperial daggers and swords... Tom Wittmann?s navy book is a good reference for these too

Thanks Rick for scanning these pages. Very interesting. I also have Lohmann & Hildebrand and the naval officer address list from ?37, as well as the rank lists. And yet, i?m still missing a good amount of officers. I only identified Theodor Heim when WAST answered me. The designation "zur Verf?gung" does not necessarily refer to having been in the merchant marine, but to having been "made available" and recalled to active duty from retirement or similar status (Officers a. D. etc) Unfortunately Kriegsmarine officer records (as well as NCO and soldier records) are managed by WASt in Berlin, the branch of the Bundesarchiv which is strictest re. the datenschutz, obtaining permission from survivors etc. Having said that, different officials can give you different responses. In my opinion, you can never be sure you have the right officer identification without cross checking with the relevant branch of the Bundesarchiv. As mentioned before Reserve offiziere are NOT listed in printed ranglisten. We know the amount of reserve officers in the kriegsmarine was much smaller than in the Heer and Luftwaffe, but is still relevant. I dont believe Kriegsoffiziere are listed either.

Thanks Rick For the 1937-1945 period, published ranglisten for all branches (Luft, KM, Heer, dont know about W-SS) are very imcomplete, as they include only aktiv officers, no Reserve, which were in the majority in all branches. The Theodor Heim data came from Wast, from the Offiziere z. V. (zurVerf?gung) files, which are also not included in ranglisten... Fritz Gabriel is listed in the 1 sept 1944 Km Ranglist I saw the Pfarrer you refer to in the Address list of Navy officers... but you are right, they didnt carry daggers

Thanks Rick, very interesting. I think I have the same Luftwaffe Rangliste you are referring to. I bought the NARA microfilm and put it on a CD in PDF format.Luftwaffe Personalamt, Dienstaltersliste der Offiziere der Deutschen Luftwaffe nach dem Stande vom 1. August 1944, Bearbeitet im Luftwaffenpersonalamt, L.Dv. Nr. 2010/1 For the Wehrmacht period, things are a bit more complicated. Even having this 44 Rangliste, plus the published 1945 one, I am still missing a majority of officers, who held der Reserve status. Their files are held at BAMA often in the form of Kartei karten. I summarized my findings on all these issues in the menus below at www.zeitzeugen1939.com

Rick, can you tell us more about researching these imperial period officers? I know the sources and archives for the Wehrmacht officer corps, but nothing about the earlier periods. When you say there were no Hauptleute named Schubbe, can you elaborate? Do you mean, none listed in printed Ranglisten, or in Bundesarchiv files, or both? Do you know the breakdown of period aktiv vs. reserve offiziere? Thanks

One more, a WKC named to Kapitan zur See Arno Viertel, Komandeur, Marine Artillerie Arsenal Trieste. Herr Viertel was at Trieste when Tito?s 4th Yugoslavian Army took the city and naval base, and joined some 200k other Germans in notoriously harsh Yogoslatian PoW camps. Sorry about the lower quality pics on this one. Havent gottent around to taking better pics of this one yet. Fall of Trieste, source: Internet