Thomas

KDVR,

have you seen this web site? Its huge, shows all the visor and pork-pie hat colors, cokcades, you name it. You should keep it for next time

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/index.htm

Tom

I'd take them in a minute! These are custom purchase straps and thus they are not going to conform exactly to sizes and construction of the issue pieces. I grant you that the blue backing is odd and I could not overlook it on an issue piece, but these are not issue boards. The deivices are similar to known examples. If someone would like to pass them along, I would be happy to relieve you of them. Chip

So they are private purchase? So a tailor sold a set of boards with fat sloppy piping, sewed one with white thread, the other with dark thread in two different methods? Remind to avoid that tailor I am not saying the straps are fake or the devices are fake, I am saying they do not belong together, someone has made these up using a 1800s great coat strap in my opinion.

I have 1915 pattern Pionier Leutnant boards with blue straps

Actually your boards are backed in black, it is the strap that is blue which is right for an uberrock. But for a NCO, who would be wearing field grey, blue backing and blue straps for the loop makes zero sence.

Robin, the straps are for an Offizierstellvertreter belonging to the Minenwerfer Bataillon XIII.

And I would say they are the early greatcoat straps that have been doctored. Come on, blue backing on the 1915 front color of black? And that big fat red piping? I would not take them if they were given to me.

Joel, Next time you buy a hat, you really should use the excellent full-Color M?tzen Charts on kaisers bunker.

Quote - Full color drawings of all known types of pre-1910 Dunkelblau and M1907/10 Feldgrau cloth headgear for all arms. Over 360 full-color drawings. All military units shown. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/farben/farben8.htm

I use it all the time. it is excellent!!!!

have you see this set Cnock?

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/tunics/dbt33.htm

Scroll down to see the group photo. :jumping:

Lots....

And for an excellent full info page on them.. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/kokarden.htm

Thank you VERY much. :cheers:

The Feldwebel can best be equated to a Company/Battery/Squadron Sergeant Major or First Sergeant (US). Each infantry battalion normally had four (one for each company). Similarly a five squadron cavalry regiment would have five Wachtmeister. There was no rank or indeed a position of RSM in Imperial times and the most senior line NCO on the staff of a regiment or battalion would have been the chief clerk usully in the rank of Vizefeldwebel or Sergeant. The Bandmaster held the same rank but was senior to the line Feldwebel/Wachtmeister. Regards Glenn

Thank you, that clears things up. What about the appointment of an Etatm?ssiger Feldwebel - AKA "Der Spiess". These guys were Unteroffizier mit Portepee but also got the second loop of braid around the cuffs. How were they different from the 'average" Unteroffizier mit Portepee Feldwebel?

Hello all, I am trying to understand the rank of Unteroffizier mit Portepee which was Feldwebel and Vizefeldwebel, which were the guys that wore the NCO cockade on thier helmets.

1. Can I assume that a Feldwebel was the equivilant to a Master-Sergeant here in the US, and a RSM in the UK?

2. If so, would there only be one in each regiment?

I agree with Chip, it looks like an original private purchased baord, but someone has glued it over paper.

For some good example, have a look at a quick and dirty guide to imperial straps on this forum thread, 4th post down with the photos.

http://pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph...highlight=strap

And for fun, a comparison of infantry regiment 92 baords

http://pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph...highlight=strap

Basic rule is that gilt insignia belongs to the sea division - current service on ships

where as silver is for the land division - dockyards. Can also relate to the admin service. see

Kaiserliche Marine 1914-1918 site for all info on the Imp. Ger. Navy

Do you have the link?

"Why are there examples of full officer ones? Were there some in between? Tony says absolutely not but I am not so sure. "

Sorry, did not know that you knew him, but it makes sense that you do. On his chart, in line 3 he says that Vizefeldwebel could wear an issue helmet with the Unteroffizier mit Portepee Kokarden and on line 4 they could also wear a private purchse one, which is what you are talking about. So if I read it, in part, he is agreeing with you? But he says they could wear either. I guess it all depends on how much spare cash the guy had. Tom

Joe, the Offizier-Stellvertreter was not entitled by regulations to wear an officers' pattern helmet. However according to Kraus that did not entirely stop the practice! Offizier-Stellvertreter were also cautioned against the wearing of the officer pattern caps, Paletot, cloak and Litewka etc.As a SNCO the Offizier-Stellvertreter was entitled to the issue helmet with NCOs cockades. The Offizier-Stellvertreter was still classified in the rank group of Unteroffizier mit Portepee whereas the Feldwebelleutant was classified as a junior officer. Regards Glenn

This is also what the charts say on kaisers bunker. Joe have you looked at the chart on helmet classifications? He has an easy to read chart that shows the Offizier-Stellvertreter wore the issue helmet. Here it is http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/class.htm Tom

Stephan,

Did you see the grouping that was posted for the july update at kaisersbunker? A fantastic Garde-Sch?tzen-Battalion shako, Waffenrock, and cap. Here is the link. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/new.htm click on the grouping photo. Tom

Hi,if I skipped the helmet and thought in the direction of a Visor.... can anyone tell me exactly what I would need? Thanks Chris

They wore a prussian cockade, so you would need one like in this link.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/farben/ir.htm

Thomas: You may be on to something here, but the single Garde Litze would mean this photo is pre-1889? Too bad we can't see the shoulder boards.

Mike: If I am not mistaken, in the case of a regiment with double Litzen, when worn with NCO collar lace, the Litzen were normally reduced from two to one. I don't think this held true for the Kragenpatten on overcoats, so whatever unit this is, it used only one Litze.

I have to admit that I noticed the single litzen on the collar of the coat, and remembered that I had read about the Prussian mounted Landgendarmerie on the pickelhaubes forum here where it was discussed that they wore the square peak like a dragoon helmet but only wore single collar litzen. According to that thread, the LG wore a single litzen on the collar never a double. So the collar would only show a single litzen. The double litzen was only worn on the swedish cuffs after 1889 when they changed from polish cuffs with single litzen. Cuffs can't be seen, but this had to be sometime after 1895 when the LG adopted the guard star.

Many thanks for the information Chip.

Not so fast, he looks to me to be Prussian Landgendarmerie. The "Foot" or Fu?gendarmen had the round peak and the "mounted" or Berittene Gendarmen the square peak like a dragoon helmet. The Preu?en Landgendarmerie (Rural Police) wore Polish cuffs with a single Garde Litzen, and in 1889 Swedish cuffs with double Garde Litzen were adopted for the Landgendarmerie. According to Ingo L?hken Die Polizei-Uniformen in Preu?en 1866 1945 (p.19) the Garde star was adopted in 1895.

Chris, could you please post a full close-up view of the bavarian wappen on your shako? With the chinscales out of the way? is this possible? Thank you, Tom

Very nice markings Chris! Here are some shoulder straps that the enlisted men would have worn. Prussian on the left and Bavarian on the right. Chip

Did you see these? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=280204980985 They are blue backed though?

Here is a young member of the Res.J?ger Bataillion Nr.20 in January of 1915 on his way to Ru?land. Notice the large old style Tschako.

Would he not have been wearing a standard M1891 shako? Great shoulder boards Chip. I like Jaeger items very much.

In my humble opinion, those boards would never have been worn with that uniform. They might even be from the same family, and could have been put on by someone, but not the original owner of the uniform. The man himself would never have worn incorect 1915 subdued baords on his dress uniform.

Nope, that's Kornblumenblau. Kaliblau is Prussian blue.

Chip

Disagree. Kaliblau in German is Potash-blue. Even on the headgear page linked above, he refers to Kaliblau as Potash-blue for the after 1915 train troops. See this link http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/farben/farben2b.htm

Maybe this time - one for all times !!How do I recognize from the uniform if it is a Dragoner, a Husar, an Ulan, or whatever was sitting on horsebacks ?

I never get them right. Thanks in advance Robert

Robert, why not just read Kaiser's Bunker Guide to Imperial German Uniforms 1842 - 1918 and you learn and then know the differences. I use it almost every day. if you look at the site, you will learn that your photo shows a guy with the plastron front like an uhlan, but he has swedish cuffs so he can only be chevalager. here is the link http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/

ccj, did you read the evolution page on the kaiser bunker web pages for imperial german hats? fantastic research and great if you cant afford those big dollar references..

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/index.htm

Hello,

maybe the: Braunschweigisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.92 ???

it can only be. with those shoulder boards http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/straps.htm and that skull. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/tradition.htm