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Everything posted by MREID

  1. Many thanks Demir for taking the time to create this most useful ( and fully bilingual! ) chart. As a budding collector of Ottoman campaign medals I have already found it both informative and very convenient. All the Best, Mark
  2. Hello again; Just a quick follow-up to my previous message. The Khedive's Sudan Medals were indeed struck and assembled at the Royal Mint and, according to my notes, a total of at least 20, 262 medals were despatched to Egypt in seven consecutive lots between October 1898 and February 1910. These are the figures recorded in the Royal Mint Order Books. The clasps & pins were shipped separately and the component parts were assembled in Egypt, possibly at the Citadel in Cairo. The medals were then distributed and, in some cases, named by the parent unit. Hope this was of some interest. Cheers, Mark
  3. Hello All; Thanks, Peter, for your kind words. Les, yes, it's a lovely medal isn't it? In answer to your queries; 1. G.W. de Saulles, who also designed the Queen's Sudan Medal, the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal and various other awards. 2. Good question, I presume the Royal Mint but stand to be corrected by a better-informed person! 3. Medal rolls for British Army recipients survive at The National Archives at Kew but are probably available on ancestry.com too. Medal rolls for the Egyptian Army, who received the vast majority of these awards, have not survived unfortunately, although many recipients were also entitled to the Egypt medal and these rolls are available at the new sources above. A warning, however, they are in a rather jumbled order and can prove a bit of a challenge. My primary interest is Egypt and Sudan medals to the Egyptian Army and I would be delighted to try and assist anyone who has examples. Cheers, Mark
  4. Hello Les; I concur with the two comments made by Paul and Peter and perhaps I might be permitted to add a few other observations? The Khedive's Sudan Medal was issued to the Egyptian Army un-named but several units saw fit to engrave/impress the recipient's details on the medal. Having examined a number of these medals, and written a wee book on them, I can confirm that the naming on your example is consistent with all other medals to the XIIth Sudanese Bn. that I have seen. Naming was done with a series of metal punches and consisted of the recipient's personal number followed by a dash and then the battalion number, in this case 961 - 12. We should remember that Arabic is named from Right to Left, except for numbers, which are read from Left to Right, as in English.This naming sequence was unique to this battalion amongst all of the Sudanese infantry battalions of the Egyptian Army. The XIIth Sudanese Bn. was initially raised in 1886 but disbanded shortly thereafter, only to be re-raised in 1888. As a half-strength battalion it fought at the Battle of Gemaizah in 1888, with 221 members earning the Egypt Medal and clasp. During the reconquest of the Sudan, the XIIth fought at Firket, Hafir, The Atbara, Khartoum ( Omdurman ) Gedaref and Talodi. The Khedive's Sudan Medal appears to have been initially issued almost universally with the first two clasps, as on your example, so your man may have been entitled to a few more clasps, if he survived the enemy and cholera epidemic. Judging by your man's number, he probably enlisted in about 1894, and would almost certainly have been from one of the Nilotic tribes like the Nuer, Shiluk, etc. I hope you enjoy the medal! Cheers, Mark
  5. Hello All; I wouldn't dream of entering the discussion about cleaning medals but if you post a scan of the naming, Chris, then I can tell you what it says. Even if it only provides his number and regiment, etc. then I just might be able to provide you with his name. Now where did I leave that cask of Silver-Dip ... ! Cheers, Mark
  6. Hello again, Gents; I think campaign medals were also sometimes converted to brooches so that a soldier's window could display the award of her late husband. I have a Crimean War Medal named to an Alma casualty that has been changed into this type of mourning " badge. " Military pensions were pretty meagre in those days and this might be the sole opportunity for a soldier's wife/widow to have a piece of silver jewellery. Other campaign medals were altered to become watch fobs, no doubt to allow the recipient to wear it every day in a relatively conspicuous fashion in civilian dress. It would be a good conversation starter and allow other veterans to identify, and possibly, patronise a particular person or his business. I have a British War Medal 1914-20 awarded to an Egyptian doctor that has been converted into a fob and wonder if this might have given him a certain cachet or unstated link with his ex-military patients. Yes, I know, sometimes I let my imagination run a little too free! I think it likely that many Egypt/Sudan Medals converted to jewellery by Egyptian or Sudanese soldiers would have been done for female relations too. Former soldiers would probaly have continued to wear their awards, as evidenced by a number of photos held by the Sudan Archives at Durham University. When the veterans died then I can see the medals being converted to honour their loved ones, as well as providing a pretty flashy looking adornment for the missus. I agree wholeheartedly that these alterations detract from the original look and meaning of a medal, but at least it has allowed these awards to survive into the present day. So many other campaign medals, particularly in Egypt, etc. have been relegated to the jewellers melting pot and have disappeared forever. I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies. Cheers, Mark
  7. Hello Jeff; As Mervyn and sabrigade have already commented, military medals to Egyptian and Sudanese troops were sometimes recycled into civilian ornaments and worn in civilian clothes. However, the example which you have is the 1882 dated Star and this was only awarded to about 20 members of the Khedive's naval and military forces after the 1882 Egypt campaign. None of these recipients were of a social standing that would have made such a conversion likely so I suspect that your example was " recycled " by a Brit. I should just mention that sometimes the Khedive's Star was improved by Egyptian recipients who had it silver dipped in order to look a little better and to match the Egypt Medal which they might have received. I think that this might have been done upon promotion or transfer to the Police when their budget might have allowed it! Thanks for sharing this item. Cheers, Mark
  8. Hello again Hannibal; Yes, the date shown on the Archives website for this man is his birthdate so he certainly was an " Old Salt " during 1914-18. The Ancestry.com website does have a better version of the MIC's but haven't heard that their naval records are any better. Certainly cheaper to spend the three quid via the Archives website, you may very well discover that Petty Officer Phippard had a long and interesting naval career, perhaps earning some other medals. You may find that he was born in Portsmouth because his father was a sailor, soldier or marine. I was born in Portsmouth too but opted for the Army! Good luck with the research. Mark
  9. Dear Hannibal; I'm no expert on the Royal Navy but your Victory Medal would appear to be named to a Stoker Petty Officer. The RN introduced a letter prefix for newly-joined men in the early 1900's I seem to recall, with the letter "K" going to Stokers, so your man probably joined before 1900. Your man is entitled to at least a British War Medal and you can acquire a copy of his service record by Googling The National Archives at Kew. Look under Seamen's Service Records and for the paltry sum of a few Pounds, ( $6 ) you can receive an electronic copy within seconds if you use your credit card. The service sheet will give a list of his ships, promotions, qualifications, etc. and should provide a good idea of his naval career. I hope this helps and good luck with your research. Mark
  10. Hi David: A very good question and one for which I have never seen a comprehensive reply. I've been collecting Egypt medals and Khedive's Stars to the Egyptian Army for a number of years and although I have no statutory reference I will suggest a possible answer, as follows. The Khedive's Star was THE Egyptian campaign medal during the period 1882 until 1892. Its award was completely separate from that of the Egypt medal and one sometimes sees official portraits of Egyptian officers wearing a Star but without the British Egypt Medal. As there were essentially no survivors from the Hicks debacle, their entitlement to a Star is probably academic, although those who emerged from the Sudan in the 1890's may have been allowed to make a claim at the Cairo War Office. Certainly Egyptian troops who fought in and around Suakin in 1884 would have received the Star. Remember, even though the British expedition under General Graham only stayed a few weeks at Suakin, the Egyptian garrison consisted of the 1st and 5th Infantry Bns. 100 cavalrymen and a detachment of artillery and they stayed, in some cases, for the next two years. These men earned the 1884 Star and I have a pair of medals to an officer that includes the 1884 dated Star. Egyptian troops who fought at El-Teb and Tamaai also earned the Egypt Medal with appropriate clasps but wore this foreign award after the Khedive's Star. I have another group of four medals to a soldier of the Xth Sudanese Bn. and as he didn't see action until the Battle of Gemaizah in 1888, his Star is of the undated variety. Anyway, as I said, I can't provide documentary evidence of this but certainly the photos and medals that I have seen certainly support the premise that the Stars wre awarded by the Khedive with the appropriate date. The Stars were made in the UK but their distribution was left in the hands of the Egyptian War Office. Please feel free to send me a private message at tapir@rogers.com if you would like to discuss further. My apologies to everyone for inadvertently sending this message before it was complete. Cheers, Mark
  11. Good evening; Just a semi-educated guess, but how about 1st Cinque Ports, Royal Garrison Artillery ( Volunteers ) from Sussex? I don't have it to hand but you might want to have a look at " The Volunteer Artillery 1859-1908 " by N. Litchfield and R. Westlake, published in 1982. Good luck! Mark
  12. Hello Gents; I'm neither an expert on fly whisks or Egyptian civil uniforms but I can claim a nodding acquaintance with the Egyptian Army ( EA ) of the 19th century. Must admit that I had never come across the fly whisk as a badge of office but certainly horse tails were used to denote the most important of all Ottoman standards, the Sancag-i Serif which was always taken on campaign and kept in a special tent. It was accompanied by seven tug which consisted of horse tails carried on poles. It's quite likely that the symbolism was retained by subsequent Ottoman Sultans and a fly whisk regraded as an obvious, and quite functional ( ! ) symbol of office. No doubt everyone is familiar with the following but, just in case, here's a list of the Ottoman ranks that were used in the EA until the mid-1950's when a pan-Arabic system of ranks was introduced; SIRDAR - Commander-in-Chief FERIK - Lt-Genl. LEWA - Major-Genl. MIRALAI - Colonel/Brigadier KAIMAKAM - Lt-Col. BIMBASHI - Major SAGHKOLAGHASI - Captain/Major acting as Bn. Staff Officer YOUSBASHI - Captain MULAZIM AWAL - Lieutenant MULAZIM TANI - 2/Lieut. In addition, the 3 general officer ranks carried with them the honourific title of PASHA, Miralai and Kaimakam carried the honourific BEY while the lesser ranks received the title of EFFENDI. All of these honourific titles were also used within the Ottoman/Egyptian civil service and a man's title would indicate his rank within the civil/military establishment. The term EFFENDI was used in deference to any man of education and civilian clerks and translators serving with the EA were granted this title. Now that I think about it, I seem to recall seeing a photograph of Sir Reginald Wingate Pasha, sometime Sirdar of the EA, Governor-General of the Sudan and, finally, Briain's High Commissioner in Egypt, holding a fly whisk in one of his portraits. Must see what I can find. Cheers, Mark
  13. Hi Brian; May I echo everyone's comment on how good it is to see such a gathering of Khedive's Stars, very well done indeed, especially on acquiring the undated version. just a few gratuitous comments; 1) Interesting that all of your examples have had their original matte black finish removed. This was quite common practice amongst British troops who favoured a shiny finish, no doubt to match the polished silver Egypt medal. Egyptian troops, of course, wore the Khedive's Star in front of the Egypt Medal, which was a foreign decoration, and I have never seen a picture of an Egyptian soldier wearing a Star that has been polished. Of course, over-zealous collectors might also have broken out the Brasso during the intervening years! 2) The Tokar clasp was issued in 1892 to commemorate the capture of the hamlet of Tokar and was certainly issued to Egyptian troops who had earned an earlier, dated, Star. We mustn't forget that the Khedive's Star was, essentially, the Egyptian campaign medal and was awarded to Egyptian troops who may not have received the Queen's Egypt medal. 3) There would have been very few Egyptian soldiers who woiuld have qualified as there was a 7-year gap between 1885 and Tokar and the term of service of Egyptian soldiers was only 4 years, until 1888 when it was extended to 6 years. I suspect that most of those who added the Tokar clasp to a Star issued for the 1884-85 campaigns would have been NCO's and Officers. 4) The only units to serve in both the 1884-85 campaigns and at Tokar were the 4th Infantry Bn., two troops of Egyptian Cavalry and the Egyptian Field Batteries. Staff officers and " Odd-Men " etc. would also have qualified of course. Whoever they were, they certainly earned these Stars! Thanks for sharing your various collections. Cheers, Mark
  14. MREID

    Turkish Buckle

    Hi Kiwi; I'm afraid that I can't positively identify the buckle but am almost positive that it is NOT Egyptian Army, my own small niche of interest. I asked a friend of mine in the Middle East if he could shed any light on the inscription and this is what he wrote; " As regards the translation, the letters are not terribly distinct and so the best guess is 'Almighty Force'. In Arabic 'Kowah' is used for force or a unit smaller than a regiment. We could of course be trying to translate Turkish and if it is Arabic then the 'almighty' is not to be confused with Allah! " My apologies if this just casts further doubt on the buckle but I was hoping he would write back with a definitive translation of the inscription. I have written to the Military Museum in Istanbul in the past and they have been quite helpful, although they write back, not surprisingly, in Turkish! Good luck with the research. Mark
  15. Hi Gents; Great image, and my apologies for taking so long to add my two-cents' worth. Ed Haynes is absolutely correct about the Egyptian order of precedence for this fellow's medals. This is exactly how they should be worn by someone in Egyptian government service. I don't just limit it to the Egyptian Army (EA) because I'm pretty sure that the central figure in this photo is in the Police. A couple of reasons why; 1) He wears a coloured collar, not worn by Sudanese soldiers. 2) He carries a whistle and cane. 3) His tarboosh cover bears a diamond-shaped flash with an additional badge. A diamond flash was only worn by the 1st and 3rd Infantry Bns. of the EA. These two units were composed of Egyptians, and Sudanese could not have been members, they were only allowed in the IXth to the XVIIth Bns. I have no doubt that this fellow had been in the EA but had probably transferred to the Police on the reduction of the Army after 1898. Sudanese soldiers generally served for life, unlike their Egyptian counterparts, and it is quite possible that he was selected for more responsible service than stamping about a Khartoum parade square. I agree that he seems to exude authority, not a bad characteristic for a native constable, or any constable for that matter! An impressive looking individual anyway. Cheers, Mark
  16. Thanks Chris. The second last picture on the attachment clearly shows a Khedivial crown stamped on the middle band of the rifle. By the way, I asked a friend to translate the write-up that accompanied the two photos of the Egyptian officers wearing medals and, apparently, Captain Miram, on the left, " fell in battle " while both men are described as earning important decorations for fighting in the Sudan whilst in British service. Perhaps a bit of artistic licence there but, still, a certain element of truth in the claim nonetheless. It also states that, serving with the Schutztruppe, they were not considered as Europenas ( ! ) Maybe a German linguist can provide a better or more accurate translation of this? All the Best, Mark
  17. Hi All; The Egyptian Army was armed with American-made Remington rolling-block rifles until the late 1880's when they were re-equipped with the Martini-Henry. There must have been a good few Remingtons appearing on the market at that time and it would make perfect sense for former Egyptian soldiers to have preferred their " old " weapons. No doubt Remingtom ammunition was also still in ready supply, making it an attractive option for anyone, or any country, considering forming a new military or police force. Mark
  18. Hi Chris and jj08; Great pictures of the buttons! I had no idea that Ottoman buttons were produced in the UK but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, Birmingham and Manchester produced consumables for most of the world a hundred years ago. My examples are made in Paris and Constantinople but are exactly the same pattern, except a Turkish-made pair that have a beaded edge. These are identified as Officers' Frockcoat buttons in a Turkish Military Museum publication. Chris, I'll try and take a stab at some of your questions, again reiterating that I am no expert. I have acquired/studied a number of photos of the 1880's Egyptian Army ( EA ) and am just finishing a text about them but claim no special knowledge; UNIFORM - Before the 1883 reformation of the EA, they wore a full dress uniform of dark blue, modelled very closely after the Turkish pattern, red tarboosh, blue tunic with various facings, matching trousers, white spats, black boots and equipment. Summer uniform consisted of an all white tunic with matching trousers, with spats, etc. as above. Rank insignia for officers followed the French pattern, with ornate braid on the cuff, culminating in an elaborate loop above the elbow. NCO's wore pointed braid on the cuff as well but of less involved pattern and of non-metallic material. Officers favoured full-length frock coats and short, heavily-braided tunics patterned after the French Army. When the Army was reborn in 1883, with British assistance, it retained most of these features. although a slightly modified Full Dress in medium blue, with various facings to denote arm of service, was gradually introduced. White was used as the arm of service colour for the Infantry, with red for the Artillery, etc. Rank followed that of the British Army, with chevrons/crowns being worn on the upper arm for NCO's. Officer's full dress still retained the elaborate cuff ornamentation, gold in Full Dress and dark braid on Patrol Dress, or Blues. In early 1883 the Khedive asked the attached British officers to adopt the tarboosh for daily wear, like their troops, and this practice was followed except on active service when the Foreign Service Helmet was favoured by some British officers. White uniforms continued to be worn during the Nile Campaign of 1884-85 but khaki uniforms were introduced to the EA shortly afterwards. I have never seen the old pre-1883 NCO rank insignia on khaki uniforms and would speculate that they had been completely replaced by then. The khaki uniforms closely followed the British pattern, with 5 x 20 ligne buttons down the front, no pockets, matching trousers and blue puttees, etc. NCO rank insignia was in red fabric. Officers wore Sam Browne belts and carried their rank insignia on their shoulder straps, brass Khedivial crowns and 5-pointed brass stars. By the late 1880's a woollen jersey ( !! ) was worn in Marching Order, dark blue for the Sudanese battalions and brown for the Egyptian battalions. I suppose it gets cold at night in the desert but the Battle of Toski was fought in a temperature of 120 degrees Fahrenheit! HEADGEAR - The universal headgear of the EA was the tarboosh, also called a fez in North Africa. Although a traditional Ottoman item that immediately identified the wearer as a servant or representative of the Sultan, it was ill-suited to the African sun. To provide some sort of additional protection from the weather, a number of additions were added to the tarboosh in the EA; Cloth Imma or Turban - White cloth was wrapped around the tarboosh, providing protection from the overhead sun. Before 1883 it could be quite bulky but the style used in the late 1880's had evolved into really nothing more than a strip wrapped around the lower portion of the tarboosh and then allowed to hang down at the back to protect the wearer's neck. Photographs of the Xth Sudanese Bn. taken by their CO, Kaimakam Donne, show these to be quite standardised within the battalion. The cloth was always white, never grey like your German askaris are wearing. Khaki Imma - This appeared in the 1890's and consisted of a cloth cover for the tarboosh with both front and back flaps. The front part could be folded up or in upon itself to act as a brim to shade the eyes. The rear flap protected the neck against sunstroke. There are good photos of this in the National Army Museum Library, as well as in journals like the Illustrated London News and The Graphic from the 1896-98 campaigns. Straw Imma - This consisted of plaited straw that was wrapped around the tarboosh, but leaving the top bare. This looked surprisingly smart and also afforded the wearer a little extra protection against sword cuts, I would imagine. I believe that this pattern was only worn by Sudanese battalions. Sorry if there are few definitive answers here, Chris, but I don't want to draw any wrong conclusions and lead people astray. My own view is that the white cloth wrapped around the tarboosh was simply common practice amongst people in the Middle East, and was worn by soldiers, traders and anyone else who wanted some protection from the sun whilst still retaining the headgear that symbolised authority. Grey fabric seems to have been favoured by the Germans so perhaps this was their way of stamping a Teutonic flavour on their African troops? The cuff rank worn by the fellow in the photo is similar to the old Egyptian pattern but not elongated up the lower arm enough to be a straight copy from the Khedive's Army. Egyptian NCO rank was generally in the arm of service colour whilst this askari seems to wear gold braid/ Anyway, let's see if anyone can clarify some of these points. Hope you all have a great Christmas holiday. Mark
  19. Thanks for the additional information, certainly goes a long way towards explaining some questions. It would make perfect sense that the Khedive's personal staff would wear correct Turkish uniforms as they were subjects of the Sultan, at least until 1914. The service dress worn by the Egyptian Army after about 1885, when they adopted khaki, followed that of the British Army, including rank insignia for NCO's, although the Khedivial crown was substituted for the Imperial crown for Staff Sergeants, etc. All officers, including British ones, wore Egyptian rank insignia consisting of the Khedivial crown and five-pointed stars. I suspect that the old Turkish insignia for NCO's, the elongated cuff ornamentation, disappeared with the white uniforms in 1885. Photos of Egyptian NCO's from the 1880's and 1890's show them sporting British-pattern rank. Certainly the photos taken during the 1896-98 campaigns show them wearing these exclusively. You have probably seen that well-known photo that depicts an Egyptian Military Policeman c. 1898 wearing a bilingual brassard bearing the Arabic letters A ( for Askari, or military ) and N ( ( for Following the rules ) Drawn or painted below the Arabic letters are the letters "MP" so that no one could claim ignorance, I suppose! I am intrigued by your mention of Egyptian/Turkish buttons made in the UK! I have a few examples and they were all made in France or in Turkey. Hmmm, you learn something new every day! Yes, the nearly 1200 British officers who served in the Egyptian Army between 1883 and 1925 signed a contract with the Khedive for a minimum of two years service, although a great many seemed to have extended the term many times. Wingate, for example, joined in 1883 and served the Khedive for something like 35 years, including a term as Sirdar. Service was dependant on passing an exam in Arabic after 6 months service but I've never read of anyone being dismissed for this reason. 1200 seems an enormous number but most of these served 1914-18 so that the peacetime strength was actually quite small. When the Egyptian Army was re-formed in 1883 there were only 25 Britsi officers attached. Anyway, good to hear that there is some interest in this subject. Cheers, Mark
  20. Yes, a very similar uniform, although the photo of Youbashi Miram suggests a white collar with white piping on a plastron of the same colour as the body of the tunic. As you say, there was a lot of " crossover " between the Turkish and Egyptian uniform, even down to the identical buttons. The picture you posted, which I suspect is from the Cairo Military Museum (?) depicts a uniform that is almost identical to that of the 1st Lancers Regt. of the pre-Republican Turkish Army. The Turkish uniform was also blue with red collar, cuffs and plastron, but with German-style litzen on the collar. The trousers and stripe were also the same. European-style shoulder boards were worn in daily dress while full fringed epaulettes were worn on formal occasions and in Friday Dress ( Cumalik elbise ) depending on the event. As has been noted, there doesn't seem to be a lot of reference material on these armies that is available in English, mores the pity! Mark
  21. Hi Chris; If he's in Egyptian uniform then he has been promoted from Captain to Saghkolaghasi, a unique Ottoman rank that is variously translated as " Adjutant-Major " or " Battalion Staff Officer. " He would have been the senior Captain in the regiment and been responsible for many of the same duties as the Adjutant in a British or Commonwealth unit, but with greater authority and clout. I must admit, however, that I'm still a little unsure about his epaulettes, although if a member of the Khedivial Guard he may have worn a different pattern, as suggested by a previous writer. Any Egyptian uniform experts out there? Cheers, Mark
  22. You could very well be right about the uniform! I dismissed the possibility of it being an Egyptian uniform because of the squared-off epaulettes but if they wore the Turkish pattern then that would make sense. I didn't think it was a Turkish uniform tunic because the uniform colour appears to be the same colour as the plastron and the Ottoman Lancers favoured a facing colour that was different to the tunic itself. More food for thought! Mark
  23. Hi Chris; Yes, I was intrigued by Captain Miram's uniform as well. At first, I presumed that it was an Egyptian Cavalry officer's tunic but on closer examination decided that it wasn't. The epaulettes are the wrong shape, although the three five-pointed stars on each ( ? ) indicate a Yousbashi's ( Captain's ) rank in the Egyptian service. I couldn't match the tunic to an Ottoman Turkish pattern either so was wondering if it might be German? The double-breasted pattern with plastron often indicates cavalry status in European armies of the 19th century but I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to make a final judgement. In addition, would his superiors in the Egyptian Army allow him to wear a foreign award before his Khedive's Star? More to ponder! All the Best, Mark
  24. Hi again; Just a follow-up to the earlier post. I checked the medal rolls for the Egyptian Army and found three possible matches for one of the officers whose portrait, with medals, appears on page 7, Achmed Fahim; 1) There is a Bimbashi ( Major ) Ahmet Fatmi listed on the roll for the Staff and he was entitled to the Egypt Medal with the clasps GEMAIZAH and TOSKI. 2) There is a Lieutenant Ahmed Fahmy who earned the medal, no clasp, with the 1st Infantry Bn. 3) And another Lieutenant Ahmed Fahmy in the 7th Infantry Bn. who is also listed as receiving the medal but with no clasp. Although there isn't a direct match with the original names we have to remember that there is no exact English spelling of Arabic names, look at how many different transliterations there are for the name Mohamed/ Mohammed, Mohamet, etc. My bet is that the man in the picture is probably 1) as he earned the medal with two clasps, as depicted. 2) and 3) may even be the same man. No match for Captain Miram, I'm afraid, but he may have been commissioned from the ranks or the medal roll with his name may have become lost over the years. Sorry. Anyway, I hope this was of some interest. Mark
  25. Hello Chris; Thanks for your kind words to a newcomer and, yes, I agree that this thread has proven most interesting, I've learned so much already! These are terrific photos of the two Egyptian officers pictured on page 7 of the your article. The gentleman on the left, Captain Miram, is wearing two medals that are familiar to me; the centre award is the Khedive's Star and was awarded by the ruler of Egypt to those soldiers, sailors and civilians who fought his enemies between 1882 and 1891. The medal that is closest to his shoulder appears to be the Egypt Medal, with one clasp, as awarded by the British government for operations in Egypt in 1882 and in the Sudan, 1884-89. I'm afraid that I know nothing about the remaining medal, though suspect that it was awarded by the Germans. This officer is wearing his Khedive's Star and Egypt Medal in the correct Egyptian order of precedence; the Star was awarded by his sovereign while the Egypt Medal was awarded by a foreign power and therefore goes after the Star. This was standard for Egyptian soldiers. I suspect that the medal at the " front " of his group was given by the government which he was currently serving and therefore take precedence. The officer on the right, Achmed Fahim, wears the Egypt Medal, with two clasps, and the Khedive's Star too, but in a different sequence, with the British Egypt Medal before the Khedive's Star. He may have copied this sequence from seeing British officers wearing them that way, or maybe he didn't like the Khedive, or maybe he, or his tailor, didn't know or care! I don't know, but he appears to wear another medal that is similar to that worn by Captain Miram. When I've finished writing this I'll have a look at the medal rolls for the Egyptian Army and see if I can find these two officers. Not all of the rolls have survived, I'm afraid, so I may have no luck but I'll certainly try. By the way, do you know where I could obtain copies of these two images, please? I would love to add them to a manuscript that I'm currently preparing. Thanks a bunch, I'll go see if I can find these two " Effendis " now! Cheers, Mark
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