Schießplatzmeister

On 17/05/2021 at 07:43, LuckySlevin said:

Hi, thank you for your answers. Will be grateful if someone could help to track the possible recipient as this would prove the originality of the bar. Also as separate question, are there sources/ books  accessible to new collectors which would allow to try to track the possible recipient? Thank you in advance

Hello,

Welcome.  Please note that in my opinion "to track the possible recipient" will not necessarily prove the originality of a bar.  Other factors are more important regarding this.  Also, it is possible that a forger could make a group from a Ranklist listing for any recipient chosen.  And, not all original groups are necessarily "textbook".  Some recipients left some awards off of their bars or changed the precedence based upon their own preference.

Good luck with possibly acquiring the group.

Best regards,

Hello again,

Is it perhaps this auction?

https://coins-la-galerie-numismatique.com/

There are indeed some very nice items listed there.

Best regards,

Hello,

If I am not mistaken, this grouping was for sale on Ebay recently.  And, if I recall correctly, the seller mentioned that the missing pieces had been "replaced".  But, my memory may not serve me correctly.  It is obvious to me that the group did belong to the NCO in the first photo.  At some point however the awards at the 2nd and 3rd positions on the group were removed.  The pieces in the 2nd and 3rd positions now may never have been awarded to the NCO in the photo who was the owner of the group.

Regardless of the two pieces in question, it is a very nice group with an interesting history.  Congratulations on acquiring it.

Best regards,

Hello,

I very much enjoyed socializing with Tim throughout the years.  He often had some wonderful items for sale.  And, he attended shows right up to the end and continued doing what he enjoyed.  I miss him, as do many others.

I am a bit confused though by your mention of an auction catalogue.  Which auction in particular are you referring to?

Best regards, 

Hello ArHo,

Thank you for sharing this fantastic photo.  It shows the details of the corduroy uniform material very nicely.  Most photographs do not have enough focus/resolution to show these details.

Best regards,

Hello again Chris,

Although not very impressive visually, this is piece from my collection is rather scarce too.  I would like to find more, but they do not come up very often.

Best regards,

Hello Chris,

Congratulations!  This is my favorite regiment and the only one that I collect shoulder boards/epaulettes of.  As you know, this variation was only used for a short period of time, and the Feldgrau (subdued) version is seldom seen.  I know that these were not inexpensive (I had my eye on them for awhile too).  I am glad that they went to a good home!

Best regards,  

Hello Peter,

I can't really comment on originality based upon what I presently see.  However, it looks like there may be a line around the center of the edge.  This is usually indicative of a piece being a galvano or possibly a cast copy.  Could you provide better photos of the edge?

Thank you,

Hello Nicolas,

Thank you for sharing these very nice ribbon bars.  The first two ribbons (EKII and SA3bX) on the upper field ribbon bar appear to be from the woven-together type ribbon stock for buttonhole wear.

An interesting combination.

Best regards,  

Hello Chris,

Congratulations!  A great photo of Silber TKM recipient Gustav Fischer k. b. R.I.R. 8

That unit was involved in a lot of action during the War.

Best regards,

A very nice painting Laurentius.

It is nice to see that it was finally purchased by someone who appreciates it.

Unfortunately, I do not think that it would be possible to identify the recipient as the award combination shown in the painting, although scarce, was not unique.  Perhaps the auction house might know.  They may have obtained it from the family, but the family didn't want the name published.  It might be worth asking them.

Best regards,

Congratulations Chris!

A very nice photo of Ritter von Steiner.  I would love to see the other photos too.

Best regards,

3 hours ago, GMU said:

Thank you very much Sandro.

 

 

 

Hello GMU,

This case (and what is in it) is my personal favorite!

Congratulations regarding owning such a beautiful and historically significant item.

Best regards,

Servus Waldo,

Congratulations regarding these beautiful and very rare crosses and cases.  Thank you for sharing them with us!

MfG,

Hello Chris,

Here is an old article about the helmet:

https://www.freundeskreis-armeemuseum.de/publikationen/

View "Kaskett 2" at the bottom and then "Ein Helm mit Geschichte" by Walter Seibold.

MfG,

Hello Chris,

Thank you for this harrowing and well-written story of combat.  I can't help but think of the sad end of Lt. d. Res. Zeiglwalner a.d. After all that he survived, to end up drowned in a canal.  HIs family must have been devastated.  I am glad that you were able to obtain these items and document the history of this Officer.

Best regards,

Hello Chris,

This is in Ingolstadt perhaps?

The fellow was not too slim, so K. P. Rupprecht is out.

It could have belonged to Ludwig III or K. P. Leopold, but I can't narrow it down further.

Now stop with this silliness and show us Leibregiment uniform photos! :-)

Best regards,

Hello Ravs and welcome,

You pose an interesting question.  To clarify things a bit, the Bavarian Military Merit Crosses were awarded to NCO's and enlisted men.  They were not awarded to Officers.  The Bavarian Military Merit Cross awards were based on rank.  There are a good many members here who know the answer regarding the rank-based award guidelines better than I do, so I will let them answer regarding the specifics.

Best regards,

Hello Chris,

The MMJO RK Träger on the left looks like Karl Ritter von Fasbender to me.

Best regards,

Hello again Rav,

Thank you for sharing the scans of the photo with us.  I cannot tell what is on his epaulettes, so no help there.  I too think that he is a Württemberger.  It also stands to reason that the second ribbon would represent a Württemberg bravery medal.  I also agree that the third place ribbon looks like a Bavarian MVK ribbon with a swords device.  The last ribbon could be for a Württemberg long service award.  It is difficult to be certain.

Congratulations regarding having this nice photo in your collection (I am a bit partial to collecting photos myself).

Best regards, 

Hello Rav,

There are many possibilities regarding the awards represented by the field ribbon bar.  To start however, although I am not a uniform expert, due to the buttons having "crowns", I believe that this NCO is not a Bavarian.  It is a WWI-era uniform.  The first position on the field ribbon bar certainly has the EKII ribbon.  There is definitely not a Hindenburg Cross/Honor Cross ribbon here.  Please scan the entire front and reverse of the photo and share it here.  There may be more clues available (such as headgear, an address on the back, name/address of photographer, etc.).

Best regards,

Hello Chris,

Unfortunately, I am not up-to-date regarding the valuation of 1939-1945 pieces, but I had to comment on how awful it is that your friend was defrauded by criminals (unscrupulous sellers).  Sadly, there are many stories such as this.  Greed, fraud, deceit, theft, all come into play when dealing with criminals.  And,  some of these bad folks seem especially attracted to the militaria collecting business.  I hate to see this happen to a collector!

Best regards,

Hello Waldo,

Thank you for providing the link to this cast forgery.  The quality of this forgery is good.  For years, many collectors were deceived by these finely-cast pieces.  I hope that members here study it, so that they avoid this type of counterfeit.  It should also be noted that this isn't the only medal forgery like this.  Many other types of medal forgeries have been made like this.  They are sometimes still described as "original" pieces.

Best regards, 

Hello,

There are two (2) types of ribbons for this award.  The one that you show is correct (for merit for medical officers, medical NCO's, and enlisted medical personnel), as is a red ribbon with silver (metallic) side-stripes [for other merit related to nursing during the 1914-1918 war].  

Your piece appears to be the type made of "copper-bronze".  The bright state of the alloy may be due to the piece having been cleaned by someone recently.  It is difficult to be certain from the photo provided.

Best regards,    

Hello Chuck,

The enamel looks fine on your MVO 4th with Crown and Swords by Weiss u. Co.  Each maker (Weiss, Leser, Gebruder Hemmerle, etc) had their own blue enamel shade.  Your enamel is of the correct shade and is translucent which is correct.

In my experience, the Gebruder Hemmerle pieces usually have the lightest shade of blue which is therefore more translucent and it is easier to see the "herringbone" pattern underneath.  The Weiss pieces have a shade darker than the G.H. pieces, and the Jakob Leser pieces have the darkest shade.

Best regards,