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    Destruction

    Past Contributor
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    Posts posted by Destruction

    1. 2 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

      Award document of the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer to a Schriftleiter named Paul Vincenz Georg Karl Cotta. According to the Hannover marriage register, he was married on 29 March 1930 to Ursula Kaiser, so he may be a relative of the person your group was to, assuming it is Kaiser rather than Keiser.

      A big big thanx, Dave! Kaiser it is, I made a mistake. Thank you again!

    2. Hey Johan,

      As I said, it's a minefield, so I will not insist by now.

      As you see we're arguing using phrases like "I read this somewhere" and " I was told", because none has any serious arguments.

      To provide more info I need to buy and check some books on a subject, will get back if I'll have more info.

       

      But to be honest, all these enameled versions around look unused and brand new IMO. And the Merit cross (with wreath) which by your info was awarded only twice, do exist in 4 examples, at least I've seen 4 of them thus far.

       

      Best!

      Serg

    3. Hi Johan,

      These crosses are the minefield, to be honest.

      First of all, I've read about such types:

       

      1. Cross for privates, 1st and 2nd class

      2. Cross for officers, 1st and 2nd class

      3. Cross for bravery/merit, also in two classes (with swords).

       

      Ciphers of ppl awarded differs from source to source, something like 20 ppl / 1st class of cross for privates and around 100 with the 2nd. As for officers/bravery crosses, only few of them were ever given.

       

      As far as I'm concerned, no one has ever shown neither 1st class of any type nor the 2nd class for bravery.

       

      What disturbs me when looking at your pictures...following the description these crosses were NOT enameled.

      1st class badges for privates were gilded and the 2nd class badges were silvered with gilded shield, while other two types were gilded with silvered wreaths.

      Jani Tiainen once showed this cross which looks believable.

      Whoever made enameled specimens, when and why--I have no idea.

       

      Obv.jpg

      Rev.jpg

      One more from the internet. Translation: Bravery Cross of the Ingrian White Wall

      Riisti.jpg

    4. 4 hours ago, The Prussian said:

      Hello!

      What about an imperial shoulder board, used in the post-war era by a shooting-club of a german town like Limburg, Lemgo or anything else with LM?

      Hi Andreas,

      Out of curiosity, are there any examples when imperial shoulder boards were used like this? 

      Might be an option.

      Another assumption--some unofficial/half official post war Bund/Verein/military organization ? Again, should it happen that anyone know/have examples of such a use? 

       

      Best!

      Serg

    5. 1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

       

      If this is the case, what you are left with is a pair of Prussian shoulder boards onto which somebody has stuck an "L" and a "W" for unknown reasons. .... 

      ...long time ago :) You're right, just another mysterious item in this hobby. I'm fine with that, may be we can solve it later.

      Thanx everyone for their help!

    6. 51 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

      For anybody interested in what kind of services flash spotters (Licht-Messtruppen) provided to the artillery, here is a description from Chris Boonzaier's website, "The Kaiser's Bunker".

       

      Flash spotters base their survey methods on simultaneous fixes on the gun flashes of the enemy cannon from posts that are from one to three kilometers distance from one another. They make note of a large number of land marks in their observation zones, drawing upon earlier plottings and fixed designations. These landmarks are coordinated with sector surveys for easier location. Besides enemy artillery, the flash spotters have to plot other targets for possible future use. So, for example, they plot trench mortars from the glare of the flash, searchlights from their being switched on, blast furnaces by their flickering glare and troop encampments by bivouac fire and smoke.

      Thank you so much, really interesting!

    7. On 22/01/2021 at 21:47, Tuomas said:

      The cross was found 1938 by the frontmen of Vilppula and Mänttä to commemorative the 20th anniversary of the Vilppula battles. They order first 1500 crosses, but this was not enought. The cross was type 1 and 4, (is type 1 really bronze, not iron?). The next order of these iron made crosses was probably type 2. The crosses was awarded by the Mänttä homeguard. The office of Mänttä homeguard was destroyed by an air strike during the Winter War in January 1940. Part of the documents and all the stock of not yet awarded crosses was destroyed.
      The first crosses was made in Turku by company Suomen Kultasepät Oy (?). But about from the year 1942 new crosses was manufactured by Kunniamerkkitehdas Oy/Tillander in Helsinki. These crosses are type 4. Tillander has used few different lion models in these crosses.

      There are also type 5 (Tillander) which have different font in the reverse side numbers "1918".

       

      Terve Tuomas,

      Thank you soooo much! Kiitos!

    8. Hi Gents,

      A quick question. I know the cross was established in 1938 and awarded to those who took part in Battle of Vilppula in 1918.

      I found 4 different types of this cross, can anyone tell me which of them were officially awarded and which are private purchase items? Or at least what was the earlier type of the cross from these four? Any info is welcome!

      1. Type one, made of bronze. Often met on old medal bars, I believe I've seen an example of this type among Mannerheim medals.

      11264733_fullsize.jpg

      11264734_fullsize.jpg

      Emil Karvonen medals.JPG

      2. Type 2, made of iron.

      1.jpg

      2.jpg

      3. Type 3, bronze again

      0.jpg

      a.jpg

      4. And a final one, made of iron.

      1.jpg

      2.jpg

    9. On 01/04/2020 at 16:21, JohanH said:

      My favourite piece with a connection to Germany is this medalbar.

      P1030981.thumb.jpg.0a17f91fa780ecb95846c2ca80c6a949.jpg

      But my favourite piece in all categories is this Finnish medal. 

      The merit cross of the white wall of Ingria, only awarded twice (2 times!). 

      This one was never awarded and is unfortunately damaged in the enamel. 

      P1030982.thumb.jpg.5bf25cb6e362dc3b7979b073c63b5b31.jpg

      Hi Johan,

      Can you show the reverse of your Ingria cross? Many thanx in advance!

    10. 2 minutes ago, bolewts58 said:

      Ok. I surrender. I'm always open to some new information. There are lots of things Verkuilen didn't know as he was active at a time when there was a lot less information available.

      I don't think the document is for this medal. This is "Die Bewährungsmedaille", not the Plakette.

       

      Look, first of all the plakette is dated 1919-1920 (!), while in  document it's clearly stated: december 1919.

      Deutsche Schutzdivision was formed in January 1919 in Zossen from 31. Infanterie-Division and already in June 19 became Reichswehr-Brigade 25. Exactly as in document (31.Division/Schutzdivision/Reichswehr-Brigade 25), and nothing to do with Landesschützenkorps which mentioned on plakette ( used to form Reichswehr-Brigade 4 ).

      I can not exclude that plakette was awarded to members of Deutsche Schutzdivision, but I really doubt this document belongs to it. What do you think?

       

       

      One more thing. For example,  Dr. Klietmann in his article calls Erinnerungszeichen der Deutschen Legion as "plakette" as well. May I ask our German friends here if this word can be used for badges ?

    11. Ehhh Brian, what I'm trying to tell is that this badge is OLD. It's absolutely impossible that is was made 10-20 years ago, ask any 3rd Reich collectors how much time needed for zinc to dissolve silvering like this. Can you show me more badges like this on sale? Made of zinc and with very same details?

      Also, zinc is the last material I'd use for any kind of copies. It's very brittle and has very narrow temperature range for die-struck. Germans used it for production just because it was cheap and available.

      If this badge is real, in this version it definitely was not worn as collar. It should be a commemorative badge and worn as such on a breast.

      And... it's Freikorps and has no connection with how long you're collecting, sorry. There are lots of undiscovered things in this area, I think you will agree. Did you ever seen Kreuzberg cross f.e,  before it appeared last year? Even VerKuilen Ager never seen it as he told me.

      So yes, let's wait for some additional facts/pictures/groups to make it evident or unreal, but thus far it has a good chances IMO.

      On 02/11/2018 at 15:00, Destruction said:

      Yup! Irregardless of which badge it represents.

      After studying this in deep, looks like I can tell which badge this document represents :)

      1.jpg

      2.jpg

    12. Hey Brian,

      Can you explain why do you think it's fake? From production point of view?

      I mean, the badge is die stamped from zinc, this means it was produced in quantities. If it's fake, where are all other badges? We do not see them on sale , why? Also, can you show any zinc based fake with finish faded like this? If you will put it into aggressive environment to make it quick, you will get it corroded. Finish like this can only be made by aging when zinc is "eating" the finish.

      Eric, I do not want to make fakers life easier, will check measurements and contact you via PM.

    13. Well, zinc it is, with faded silver finish, as I supposed.

      I'm not much into production but as far as I'm concerned it's impossible to made cast zinc counterpart badge, isn't it? Also this faded finish, eaten by base metal, as we see on WW2 items...

      So I believe this badge is original, probably produced/ordered at the same run when they did these plakette. No idea if document belongs to badge or plakette though, as I said previously.

      Obv.jpg

      Rev.jpg

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