some eBay stupidity

[Stogieman]

enjoy:

[Stogieman]

Reverse:

[Stogieman]

Another doozy:

[Stogieman]

Reverse:

[Stogieman]

One of my favorites:

[Stogieman]

Reverse:

[DutchBoy]

Hey Stogieman,

Can you help me indentify some of the problems with these items...I'm very new to German States stuff.

thanks,

Matt.

[Daniel Murphy]

Stogie,

Stupidity on ebay is an everyday occurance, but these "wonderful" bars have brought it to the heights of being an art form. Thanks for the laugh.

Dan Murphy

[Daniel Murphy]

Can you help me indentify some of the problems with these items...I'm very new to German States stuff.

Matt,

The first bar has mostly WW1 to 1930's awards. Yet planted right in the center is a fake Luisen Order (for a woman)from 1813-1814. The rest are all in the wrong order. For a real bar the order should be EK2, Militar Verdienst Kreuz, Hamburg Hanseatic cross (and /or) Friedrich August medal, Honor Cross, TR red cross medal, then the unofficial Balkan cross and Silesian eagle. The whole bar is crap with some original medals, the Luisen Order if real would command a high four figure price.

Bar # 2 has TWO Wuerttemburg silver bravery medals. nuff said.

The ribbon bar has a 1914 AND a 1939 EK2 (not possible) and a 1957? tank destruction? More junk.

Dan MUrphy

Edited August 14, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[dond]

I saw those bars last night and was going to post them but the lawnmower was calling, and then the rum and coke. Glad to see they made it here.

[notned]

Gawd! these are positively Awfull!

the mind boggles! How do they possibly think that they can get away with selling this tripe?? I mean those sort of bars ( Size wise) would command serious money, and those who spend this sort of money know what they are buying...and would not touch these with a 100 foot barge pole!

Thanks for the laugh!

Paul

[Claudio]

Hi guys!

I think you all are wrong.... the first bar is beauuuuuuutiful: it's a bar of a Prussian Lady who changed sex before WWI, got enlisted as simple soldier in a Saxon unit and got the NCO's Prussian PlM, thanks to her/his "Vitamine B" (good network) among the Prussians. After the war she/he went on fighting the communists and poles in several different freikorps. Later she/he became a lady and a Krankenschwester.

It's a very rare combination of one of the first documented lady-man of the history who changed twice sex!! Very sexy and rare combination!!!!

Ciao,

Claudio

P.S.: this bar is an offense to the serious collecting community. Ebay does a great job: bans everything which comes from the TR period but does notthing against such obvious fakers. That's great!

Edited August 14, 2006 by Claudio

[Paul R]

I think that the double EK2 1914/1939 combo is as awesome as it is rare!!!!

[DutchBoy]

Dan,

Thanks a lot for the info, it's very clear to me now that these bars are a bunch of rubbish. The seller probably won't provide close-up pics either will he?

I've seen a lot of fake Soviet stuff (my former main collecting area) on eBay, and I'm very surprised to hear some of these sellers aren't being banned....

Matt,

The first bar has mostly WW1 to 1930's awards. Yet planted right in the center is a fake Luisen Order (for a woman)from 1813-1814. The rest are all in the wrong order. For a real bar the order should be EK2, Militar Verdienst Kreuz, Hamburg Hanseatic cross (and /or) Friedrich August medal, Honor Cross, TR red cross medal, then the unofficial Balkan cross and Silesian eagle. The whole bar is crap with some original medals, the Luisen Order if real would command a high four figure price.

Bar # 2 has TWO Wuerttemburg silver bravery medals. nuff said.

The ribbon bar has a 1914 AND a 1939 EK2 (not possible) and a 1957? tank destruction? More junk.

Dan MUrphy

[Ed_Haynes]

The difficulty is, of course, that there are no laws against selling fake material (and who proves this anyway? = caveat emptor) in any of the countries where eBay functions.

There are laws against the display of Nazi symbols in many of the countries where eBay operates, so these are banned, no matter how much so many may whine about it.

Remember that eBay is a company, profit is center-stage, issues of law matter a great deal, ethics and morality are irrelevant, and "collector values" do not even enter into the discussion.

[DutchBoy]

Ed,

You're right of course...they're not going to have someone scanning the items for fake orders and medals....that's nuts.

However, you CAN get in trouble on eBay for selling counterfeit merchandise...a friend of mine (shame on him!!) tried to sell some fake Louis Vuitton handbags on eBay and he got a VERY stern email from eBay and from Louis Vuitton the very same day warning him from ever trying that again. His listings were pulled immediately, but since it was a first offence they let it go, and even refunded his listing fees.....

Now I doubt the German government or the Prince of Hannover is going to complain to eBay about their fake items....

The difficulty is, of course, that there are no laws against selling fake material (and who proves this anyway? = caveat emptor) in any of the countries where eBay functions.

There are laws against the display of Nazi symbols in many of the countries where eBay operates, so these are banned, no matter how much so many may whine about it.

Remember that eBay is a company, profit is center-stage, issues of law matter a great deal, ethics and morality are irrelevant, and "collector values" do not even enter into the discussion.

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed,

You're right of course...they're not going to have someone scanning the items for fake orders and medals....that's nuts.

However, you CAN get in trouble on eBay for selling counterfeit merchandise...a friend of mine (shame on him!!) tried to sell some fake Louis Vuitton handbags on eBay and he got a VERY stern email from eBay and from Louis Vuitton the very same day warning him from ever trying that again. His listings were pulled immediately, but since it was a first offence they let it go, and even refunded his listing fees.....

Now I doubt the German government or the Prince of Hannover is going to complain to eBay about their fake items....

Yep, Louis Vuitton will sue the stuffing out of eBay, Kaiser Wilhelm or Stalin won't.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[eitze]

But after all the laughing the sad question is: who the hell is going to bid on such rubbish

Even if I am not a serious collector, but I`m still a collector. That means I should have a little background information about the sphere I`m interested in !!

I can`t believe this

greetings

eitze

[Ed_Haynes]

Right . . . the real tragedy is that some collector, probably a new collector, will bid on this frass and someone will be unlucky enough to win the misbegotten things. After two or three such "collecting" experiences, I wonder what this new collector will move on to? Beanie Babies?

When we -- the silverbacks -- bemoan the lack of a new phaleristic geteration -- harumpf harumpf -- maybe we need to find the answer at http://www.ebay.com??

Edited August 14, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[JensF.]

hahaha What a crap!

[Wild Card]

Now I doubt the German government or the Prince of Hannover is going to complain to eBay about their fake items....

Hi Dutch Boy,

Having collected Hannover for over twenty years, I am curious about your comment. Although, in recent years, I have I have concentrated my interests in other areas, something of interest may come along in the future; so I would appreciate any information that you can provide as to what I should avoid.

Many thanks,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

What a crap ...

The first one, BTW, has yet been sold at "Stauffer Auktionen OHG, M?nsingen", a serious German military auction house and the second one is of our old friend baff002. May No 3 be from Ohio?

Claudio, I love your description of No 1. A big shame I missed auction end

No 1's red cross decoration is a M57 Federal republic version of the nazi award.

[VtwinVince]

Some pretty freaky stuff being concocted for evilbay these days. BTW if you get an email from a guy called Richard Gruber, delete it, as he is a scammer trying the "second chance offer" rip-off with medal collectors. I got a message from him because I was bidding on the Robert Moser aviation group last week.

[DutchBoy]

Hey Wild Card,

I have no specific knowledge about fakes from the German States. What I was commenting on was Ed Haynes' discussion about what can be done about fakes on eBay. What I was illustrating was that while companies will sue eBay for allowing listings of fakes of their items (like fakes designer handbags or clothes), this is impossible for fakes of militaria.

If there is a fake Iron Cross on eBay, the current head of the Hohenzollern family or the present German Government will not sue eBay for selling fakes of real orders that they (or their ancestors) had a hand in awarding or manufacturing in the past. I used Hannover only as one such example. So fakes can proliferate on eBay without anyone telling them to cancel those listings or ban those sellers, because eBay itself is not pressured by anyone to do so.

Matt.

Hi Dutch Boy,

Having collected Hannover for over twenty years, I am curious about your comment. Although, in recent years, I have I have concentrated my interests in other areas, something of interest may come along in the future; so I would appreciate any information that you can provide as to what I should avoid.

Many thanks,

Wild Card

Edited August 24, 2006 by DutchBoy