France Croix du Combattant Volontaire

[Christophe]

Hendrik,

Excellent. As far as you know, has this mdal really been awarded ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

Hello Christophe,

I see no reason why it shouldn't have been awarded : governments are sometimes quite late in awarding medals (the Belgian government is currently still awarding medals for WW2 and the Korean War to veterans !). Also, medals can and are awarded retroactively (e.g. French medals only a few years old with a "1914-1918" bar ...).

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Christophe]

Thanks Hendrik for your reply.

I agree with you. What I meant is more : isn't this medal one made with new elements bought in a medal shop ? A new medal + a new bar ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

isn't this medal one made with new elements bought in a medal shop ? A new medal + a new bar ?

That is quite possible although it is not one of those ugly shiny gilded versions one sometimes encounters ... But without paperwork or any other indication of provenance, I cannot claim it to have been actually awarded to someone.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Christophe]

The finish of yours seems similar to mine...

Ch.

[Chris Boonzaier]

To add to this...

From a personal point I have discovered that I am enttled to the Croix de combattant, but a call to the ONAC tells me that they have a backlog of years and months...

For the Initial medal in the thread, the "Volunteers combat cross"... the Legionnaire in the first half of the thread can NOT be qualified for it and I think he just picked up the wrong medal.

I telephoned the agency responsible for the award.... you have to be a volunteer for a specific conflict.

i.e. Volunteer in WW2 to join the army and you are a volunteer.

Volunteer for the army in 1938 and end up in a war... that is incidental and does not count as you did not volunteer for the war specifically.

[Veteran]

Hello Christophe

This post has been running for quite a while now. This is what I can contribute to the subject.

The very first picture showing a Croix du Combattant volontaire is an interesting combination of a first type 1914-1918 cross (without the dates) with a 1939-1945 ribbon. Quite legitimate in its own right, it is nevertheless a "mule"; the owner felt he thought the 1rst type (privately made and sold) cross looked better than the definitive type which was struck by the Paris Mint. The ribbon proves he was intitled to the 1939-45 cross, and as long as no one looked at its reverse, it was quite acceptable.

The Croix des combattants volontaires, as you underlined, was only available to men who :

1. Earned the Croix du combattant because they belonged to a unit mentioned on the officiel list of combattant units, at the right time and for the appropriate length of time, or who were wounded or earned a citation or took part in the required number of recognised battles ("combats class?s").

2. Had voluteered for the duration of the conflict for which the combattant cross was earned.

When these two conditions existed, the Croix du combattant volontaire (CCV) could be obtained, but it had to be requested and officially granted, a numbered official brevet being issued. One cannot decide he is intitled to the cross and wear it.

Once it has been granded, it counts as a "titre de guerre" as do citations and wounds received in combat.

I am not sure it could be awarded posthumously.

Holders of the CCV wear BOTH CROSSES as shown by this group :

Professionnal soldiers who are engaged in combat during their military carreer, as "regulars" or as "contract soldiers" which is the case for men in the Foreign Legion, are NOT INTITLED to the CCV.

On the other hand, men who joined the Foreign Legion during the war as volonteers for the duration, WERE INTITLED to the CCV.

I hope this contributes to making things a little clearer. The muddle between both awards is understandable.

Best regards

Veteran

Edited July 14, 2008 by Veteran

[Veteran]

As an addition to this former post, changes in the rules of awarding the CCV are confusing, to say the least.

The first to be created was the 1914-1918 CCV, with a distinctive ribbon mostly dark green. It appeared in the 1930s. It replaced an ENGAGE VOLONTAIRE clasp previously established to be worn on the 1914-1918 Commemorative medal.

The reverse was dated 1914-1919, or not dated.

Then it appeared that a small number of survivors of the 1870-1871 war against Germany might still be around.

Two varieties of a second type (struck by the Paris Mint) became available, with the appropriate dates on the reverse and the same ribbon mostly dark green as the 1914-1918 croix de guerre ribbon.

The 1870-1871 type is very scarce.

After WW2, in the 1950s, a new CCV with a new ribbon (mostly red as the 1939-1945 croix de guerre ribbon) and the 1939-1945 dates was created. The stricking by the Paris Mint was similar to the previous CCV. No clasp. This is the medal shown on the medal bar.

The dates are difficult to see in the lower part of the round center of the cross's center.

When further conflicts appeared, CCVs were required. It was then decided that the 1939-1946 cross would be changed into an all wars cross, without dates on the reverse and clasps to indicate the wars when the cross was earned. Later, the nice "florentine bronze" colour of the metal was changed to the glary goldish metal now in use.

Men who received the 1939-1945 CCV tend to wear their cross without a clasp, since it was awarded with its own ribbon and dates on the reverse of the cross. More recent awardees will wear the clasp (clasps) they are entiltled to, naturally.

Regards

Veteran

Edited July 14, 2008 by Veteran

[Christophe]

(...)

Then it appeared that a small number of survivors of the 1870-1871 war against Germany might still be around.

Two varieties of a second type (struck by the Paris Mint) became available, with the appropriate dates on the reverse and the same ribbon mostly dark green as the 1914-1918 croix de guerre ribbon.

The 1870-1871 type is very scarce.

(...)

Veteran

Hi Veteran,

Many thanks for all these very valuable comments, and this synthesis of the past and present situations.

I did not know there had been a 1870-1871 version. Do you have one, or a pic of it ?

Thanks again.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Veteran]

Hello Christophe

Here is a picture of the 1870-71 CCV. As you can see, it is absolutely identical to the 1914-1918 CCV, except for the center of the reverse, shown on the next message.

[Veteran]

As promised, here is a blow-up of the center reverse of the 1870-1871 Croix du Combattant volontaire

You really have to know what to look for to have the slightest chance to find the dates that make the difference ....

It would be interesting to know how many of them could have been struck by the Paris Mint; considering the fact that it was introduced in the 1930, one would think that the youngest surviving volunteers would have been in their very late '70s or even in their 80s... and then they would have to be made aware of the fact that they was intitled to the Cross and told how to request permission to wear !. Probably adds up to a handful.

Regards

Veteran

Edited July 21, 2008 by Veteran

[Christophe]

Thanks Veteran for these excellent pics, and what a nice and rare medal. Be certain I will have a closer look to these; I mean the 1914-1918 ones... Who know ? maybe, by chance...

Cheers.

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks for this thread and these images . . . I always like learning!