Japanese Red Cross

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Laurence and everyone,

This Japanese Red Cross medal just became part of my collection so I though I'd take advantage of your offer to add mine to your thread.

I've been busy with "trades" once again and the fellow I got this from likes to glue the ribbons to a backing. The glue can be seen in the photo of the reverse. There is a ring sewn onto the reverse, is this an original attachment device? The medal and ribbon are in pretty good condition. I am sure it is Showa.

A lot has been said about these on this thread so I won't bother as I have nothing to add.

I hope you like my new addition. It is my first Jananese but not my first Red Cross Medal.

Cheers

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

Here is rhe reverse showing the suspension (?) ring. It has come free on one side bit I don't think I will attempt to reattach it.

Cheers

Brian

[Paul L Murphy]

The ring does not appear to be original. These female versions on the bow ribbons are usually found with a safety pin type assembly on the reverse. I suspect the pin broke off and has been replaced. Still a nice example of this medal.

[Brian Wolfe]

The ring does not appear to be original. These female versions on the bow ribbons are usually found with a safety pin type assembly on the reverse. I suspect the pin broke off and has been replaced. Still a nice example of this medal.

Hi Paul,

After I posted this medal I showed it to my wife who is pretty good at sewing. Without hesitation she said the ring was put there to maintain the shape of the ribbon. Otherwise it would just flatten out quite quickly in wear. She also suggested that perhaps this particular "supplier" of the ribbons intended them to be sewen onto a dress uniform. When we reattached the loose side of the ring it raised it to a position that would indeed be easier to sew onto a uniform. I've tried to show this in the photo. I must agree with my wife's logic that the ring would only be there to serve these purposes. Is there a chance that some of these medals were intended to be sewen onto a uniform and/or when the ring gave way the recipient would simply reattach it with a safety pin, which would be closer at hand than another ring? Any thoughts on this hypothesis?

Cheers

Brian

[Paul L Murphy]

Hi Brian,

Interesting theory but not one supported by all of the medals I have seen, which run into hundreds. The Japanese did not sew their medals to their uniform, if female they pinned them and for men they used the hook and eye assembly fixed to a suspension bar. I will see if I have one of these at home at the moment and post a photo of the reverse for you so you can see the normal pin assembly.

Regards,

Paul

[Laurence Strong]

Hi Brian

Thanks for sharing . Nice medal Here are the reversesof mine. The one on the bottom is Meiji if I recall and Paul stated that it should not be mounted on the ribbon.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Brian

Thanks for sharing . Nice medal Here are the reversesof mine. The one on the bottom is Meiji if I recall and Paul stated that it should not be mounted on the ribbon.

Hope this helps a bit.

Thank you to both Paul and Laurence for adding to my knowledge.

So..... you're saying that my medal is rare?

Seriously, I have only seen one of these medals which is the one I purchased so I am completely in the dark as to why there was a ring on the back of mine. I don't think it was ever issued. It will reside in my small Red Cross collection until I run onto more medals from Japan which is what happened to my WW I German Red Cross medal.

Again thanks for your assistance.

Cheers

Brian

[Paul L Murphy]

Hi Brian,

Apologies but it is far from rare ! Japanese Red Cross medals are very common but there is a huge variety in die types etc so they can be a cheap but attractive and fascinating field of study in themselves. The female medals are harder to find than the male awards, but still not even scarce.

Best regards,

Paul

[Jacky]

Hi all,

Lately I found a silver japanese membership medal, sadly lacking a ribbon.

Could one of you provide me with a ribbon?? I will, of course, pay for it.

Will try to rinse the black stuff off it, then I will take a picture.

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

I just got a nice photo of Japanese Red Cross Nurses wearing their Red Cross Medals. The photo was purchased on eBay (perhaps you saw it) and the seller said that it was a Japanese Red Cross Delegation en route to Europe in 1898. If you look at the close up of the photo (next post) you will see that the most decorated lady is wearing what I think is a Russo-Japanese War Medal. It is the one to the viewer's right. This would place the photo after September 5, 1905. Perhaps I am incorrect about the identity of the medal. No matter, I like the photo as it shows the Red Cross Medal in wear.

By the way this is not an original photo but a copy, though it is of photographic quality. It was therefore a lot less money than an original and I am just as pleased.

I hope you like it.

Cheers

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

Here is the close up of the lady with what I think is the Russo-Japanese War Medal.

Any thoughts about this possibility?

Cheers

Brian

[Laurence Strong]

Interesting..I wonder what her other medals are?

[Jacky]

Me too,

it appears that the top left one is a cross of merit

where as the bottom right is the special member medal

[Ed_Haynes]

To my novice eyes, the first medal (on the bow ribbon) looks like a low (7th or 8th?) class of the Order of the Sacred Crown, so this young lady is a "someone".

Then three war medals. The second looks like the 1900 War Medal, which would suggest the first is for the 1894-95 War and the last for the 1904-5 War. Second-guessing the spectrum shifts makes this dicey, however.

I assume the botton row is her Red Cross stuff.

Hoping that Paul will pop by now and straighten us all out . . . .

[Laurence Strong]

To my novice eyes, the first medal (on the bow ribbon) looks like a low (7th or 8th?) class of the Order of the Sacred Crown, so this young lady is a "someone".

Hoping that Paul will pop by now and straighten us all out . . . .

If it is such a low level of the award, how could she be a "someone"? Just a question of interest.....sure looks like she could chew you up and spit you out though.

Edited May 26, 2007 by Laurence Strong

[Ed_Haynes]

If it is such a low level of the award, how could she be a "someone"? Just a question of interest.....sure looks like she could chew you up and spit you out though.

The highest classes of the order only went to Imperial Princesses or other noble folk. Your average nurse (and remember the early 20th century social view of nurses) wouldn't have been CLOSE to this order. No run-of-the-mill Red Cross doughnut dollie, this.

And I agree totally about her look. She is, thank you very much, IN CHARGE OF THINGS. And, for a pre-WWI Japanese woman . . . !!

[Laurence Strong]

But was it not on par with the Sacred Treasure? Were the levels not rank related?

Edited May 26, 2007 by Laurence Strong

[Laurence Strong]

I am confusing my self, I meant the Order of the Rising Sun,

A document to a lowley Naval machinist from the Sino/Russo war

Edited May 26, 2007 by Laurence Strong

[Ed_Haynes]

But was it not on par with the Sacred Treasure? Were the levels not rank related?

Yes, to a degree. But, through 1945, only 3346 awards IN ALL CLASSES had been made, most in the lower classes and anything 4th class or better was extremnely rare. Until 1919 it was the only order open to women, and this is her time period. (See Peterson, 2nd ed., pp. 28-33.)

[Ed_Haynes]

Out of curiosity -- and deferring to better eyes than mine -- could she have a Taisho Enthronement (1915)? This might help date the photo.

[Paul L Murphy]

To my novice eyes, the first medal (on the bow ribbon) looks like a low (7th or 8th?) class of the Order of the Sacred Crown, so this young lady is a "someone".

Then three war medals. The second looks like the 1900 War Medal, which would suggest the first is for the 1894-95 War and the last for the 1904-5 War. Second-guessing the spectrum shifts makes this dicey, however.

I assume the botton row is her Red Cross stuff.

Hoping that Paul will pop by now and straighten us all out . . . .

I am with Ed on this one. The order is definitely the Sacred Crown and it is either a 7th or 8th class. In my own collection I have a Russo Japanese War 8th Class Sacred Crown group documents etc. to a Red Cross nurse who served in the campaign. I believe nurses would get the 8th class and senior matrons etc. the 7th. Before anyone asks for photos of my group it is locked in a bank vault in Ireland so sorry

[Laurens Q]

Hello Gentlemen,

To shift your attention to a new question on this informative thread, I would like to know if there is a relation with the Manchurian Red Cross medal. The ribbon has the same lay-out, except the four vertical stripes are colored in yellow instead of bright white. The design on the medal is not very different from the Japanese medals. Were they made by Japanese firms as well, or are they seen seperately? My apologies for not having any photos at the moment as I don't own one yet...

Thanks,

Laurens

[Ed_Haynes]

It is my assumption that the Manchukuo/Manchuguo (I assume that is what you refer to?) awards were made in Japan, except a few semi-official ones that seem to have been locally made. I have always assumed that the Manchuguo Red Cross medals were Japanese-made too. Paul?

[Laurens Q]

I was indeed referring to the Manchukuo medal. I tend to use the name Manchuria more often, but Manchukuo is more correct (so I believe). In the four to five years I have been looking at Japanese militaria, I have only seen the 'lowest' medal, awarded for men. Are there any other known examples?

[Laurence Strong]

Here you go

http://www.liverpoolmedals.com/FMPro?-db=l...t2.htm&-new

Second last page in the Japanese section, shows the silver medal along with a bunch of ordinary members.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Laurence Strong