Hungary Hungarian People's Republic Awards

[Richard S]

Distinction for Public Security Service, bronze grade, Observe

[Ulsterman]

wow!!!

[Richard S]

Distinction for Public Security Service, bronze grade, Reverse

[Gordon Craig]

Richard S

Thanks for posting your medals. I would like to have a silver one to add to my bronze. The reverse of the bronze caught my eye though. I had never noticed before, but on the reverse just to the right of where the sta is attached to the wreath there is a makers mark. It appears to be a small triangle with a star at the top inside the triangle. Along the inside of the base of the triangle it looks as thought the letters "MAZV" are printed. Can anyone else with one of these medals confirm those are the letters they see on the award in their collection? Does anyone know who the maker of these awards was?

Cheers,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

Lets ask tomorrow!

[Zsolt]

Richard S

Thanks for posting your medals. I would like to have a silver one to add to my bronze. The reverse of the bronze caught my eye though. I had never noticed before, but on the reverse just to the right of where the sta is attached to the wreath there is a makers mark. It appears to be a small triangle with a star at the top inside the triangle. Along the inside of the base of the triangle it looks as thought the letters "MAZV" are printed. Can anyone else with one of these medals confirm those are the letters they see on the award in their collection? Does anyone know who the maker of these awards was?

Cheers,

Gordon

Gordon,

The hallmark is not "MAZV", but "MAPV": Magyar ?llami P?nzVerő ( Hungarian State Mint )

Congratulations, the silver grade is GREAT!!!

Regards: Zsolt

Edited February 14, 2007 by Zsolt

[Gordon Craig]

Zsolt,

Thanks for the post. I visited the Military Museum this morning and they gave the same information but very kind of you to share you knowledge. We have come across two other markings for the Hungarian State Mint. Another one is P.V. which is found on a Free Fall Para badge in my collection and some other smaller badges plus a similar makring to the one I aksed about previously that only uses three letters which I think are MVP. Charles can confirm, or correct, that fact.

Cheers,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

MAP....

[Zsolt]

The gold grade of the Public Security Service Sign. (So the series is complete)

Avers:

Edited February 14, 2007 by Zsolt

[Zsolt]

Revers:

[Richard S]

Hello Zsolt,

thats great, I never seen a first grade before. Not in a book or somewhere else.

K?sz?n?m

[hunyadi]

WOW - if the quality was not there - I would almost question this one - but clearly of the early quality! Very nice.

[Hauptmann]

Hi Zsolt,

Wow... that 1st class is definitely the pic of the litter! The enamel really makes it come to life!

And one of the best things is... push comes to shove they could now be given out for Mercedes Benz salesmen of the month, quarter and year!

Super piece!!!!

Dan

[KeithB]

The public security service medals are very nice, but can anybody explain the symbolism of the three pointed star in the center of these medals? Is there any, or is it an arbitrary symbol? Hopefully I'm not missing some obvious answer...

[Ulsterman]

No idea-but they used a similar design for their Hungarian international Brigade veteran's medal about the same time.

That 1st class is awesome!

by the way: for you guys "im feld"

http://www.internationalmilitaria.com/arti...aratrooper.html

Edited February 15, 2007 by Ulsterman

[hunyadi]

The three pointed star has always had some symolism with the effect of "when tossed around it always lands with the sharp point up" - just after WW2 as in WW1 things in Hungary were a mess and the future looked unceratin to yet another generation - adopting a symbol that no matter which end got turned the business end would alwyas point up was probably adoped to intsill a sense of security. "No matter what happens to our land my fellow Hungarians - the seucurity forces will be here to protect you!" - I say all of this of course with no backing in literature, just my own personal interpretation - next?....

[Gordon Craig]

Ulsterman,

That was an interesting article that you posted. I had posted another article on the same badges but not in that depth. I spent close to two hours with the present curator of Numismatics and Medals at the Hungarian Military Museum yesterday (14 Feb.). To say the least it was an interesting and enlightening visit. We were allowed to take photographs of some of the badges shown in the article with the express agreement that we use them only for our own research and not publish them on the internet or in any other form. This is not the forum to post information on WWII badges so I will not update the article here. Perhaps it would be a good idea to post it on the WWII forum and update the article there. There is new information to add on badges in the inventory of the museum. Before I do that though, I will wait until after my next visit on the 28th of Feb. The museum is only available to researchers on Wednesdays so we have to be patient!!!!!

Regards,

Gordon

[Zsolt]

The three pointed star was the symbol of the Hungarian Republic Police after the WW.II.

On the visor hat of the police officers was similar badge. (See the photo)

The Zalka M?t? Commemorative Medal is another story, from 10 years later. The International Brigades in Spain had three pointed star sign too.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Zsolt

[order_of_victory]

The three pointed star was the symbol of the Hungarian Republic Police after the WW.II.

On the visor hat of the police officers was similar badge. (See the photo)

The Zalka M?t? Commemorative Medal is another story, from 10 years later. The International Brigades in Spain had three pointed star sign too.

Was Mercedes Benz subserdising them

Order of Victory

[Ulsterman]

Ulsterman,

That was an interesting article that you posted. I had posted another article on the same badges but not in that depth. I spent close to two hours with the present curator of Numismatics and Medals at the Hungarian Military Museum yesterday (14 Feb.). To say the least it was an interesting and enlightening visit. We were allowed to take photographs of some of the badges shown in the article with the express agreement that we use them only for our own research and not publish them on the internet or in any other form. This is not the forum to post information on WWII badges so I will not update the article here. Perhaps it would be a good idea to post it on the WWII forum and update the article there. There is new information to add on badges in the inventory of the museum. Before I do that though, I will wait until after my next visit on the 28th of Feb. The museum is only available to researchers on Wednesdays so we have to be patient!!!!!

Regards,

Gordon

Hi Gordon:

Just saw this.

Interesting is right-especially as it demonstrates that there are well made badges coming out of Hungary and that this skill level is involved in making fakes for easy cash-the faking virus grows.

I am certain that Communist era Orders are probably being made-or at least the warehouses are being emptied. it's only a a matter of time before the rarer stuff is faked-if not already. I know I'd look very,very hard at any International Brigade medals out there.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Ulsterman

[hunyadi]

After a moring at the Hungarian National Museum - here is what I was able to find (so far) on the Partisan badges - it was my joy to hold in my little hands #1! -

her is what I was able to discover from what they have in the National Collection

#5912 Nov 4, 1955 Fenyo A Endre

#3450 ?,?, 1957 Szakasits Arpad

#3360 no docs Kelen Jolan (female)

#3354 ?,?, 1957 Jungmayer Sandor

#2772 no docs Szeged Imre

#1786 no docs Komjat Iren (female - apparently well known for her actions)

#1147 no docs Fickert Ferenc

#606 no docs Maleter Pal (famious maryter of the 1956 revolution)

#26 no docs Asztalos Janos (another famious partisan)

#1 no docs Tibor Szamuely (this is not confirmed - yet - but it it what was suspected by the director. He was apparentyl killed in 1919 fighting Nationalist Forces - of interest is that this badge is uniqe as it has a concave enameled red star at the top - the die is slightly different than that of the 'typical' 1954 model Partisan badges and displays a much higher quality than the other types - or perhaps I was just enamored with it - who knows?)

The museum only has three surviving documents - from which I was able to match name and number and an award year - it looks like it was a method of 'what I pulled off the shelf when I wrote up the award document' - next trip is next week to teh National Archives where it is thought the list of partisans may reside...the search continues.

[Gordon Craig]

Ulsterman,

I don't know that Hungarian awards/badges have reached the point of being copied yet, outside of the ones mentioned earlier. The problem is that quality varies so much across the life span of some badges/awards that a poorly made item does not necessarily indicate a copy. Last week, when Charles and I visited the curator of the Numismatics/Medals section of the Military museum, we looked at a tray of Hungarian para badges ranging from WWII examples up to some current ones. There was one Communist era para badge that the curator thought might be a copy because of the colour of the green wreath. He didn't really know though as his area of expertise is not in these badges. I tended to disagree because I also own a similar badge and when examined in conjunction with 10 or 20 others it left no doubt in my mind that it was authentic.

However, your point is well taken about the International Brigad medal since it isn't possible to compare several of them at once when buying such a rare bird.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

I'd like to add a litle to what Hunyadi had to say about yesterday morning at the National Museum. I have to second his comments about holding Partisan Badge number 1 in my hands. It is a beautifully made badge and much more striking in appearance than the others that were in the tray. Especially when they had the matching numbered miniture! Unfortunately, uncased. Charles and I are waiting impatiently to see if the museum staff can find a reference as to who was awarded this #1 badge. Perhaps, as he says, this may come to light from the State Archives.

In the mean time, research presses on in many areas.

Regards,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

Never thought that I would find one with a document - but I did! 1959 version...medal has some problems with the color -but it does not affect the surface (?) - looks like a coat of laquer gone bad or imporperly applied but it is not bubbles or anything - just odd - but that document says it all -

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

You've been busy again! I woke up with a cold this morning so I hope I didn't give it to you yesterday.

In my reply to Ulsterman and his mention of the International Brigad medal, I should have mentioned our encounter yesterday. While Charles and I were browsing through a tray of Parisan Badges, I noticed a case of different dimentions and reach over for to the other side of the tray from where I was sitting and picked up the box. Inside was? You guessed it. An International Brigad medal. What a splendid piece of workmanship.

The first thing Charles said was "Look for a silver mark". My answer was "You won't find one as the medal is only silver plated and the plating is coming off". An interesting piece of information to have. Anyway, I was impressed with the high releif of the badge and the extremely good workmanship in making it. Would really like to own one of those. Cased would be nice!!!!!

Regards,

Gordon