My New WW2 Commonwealth Stars

[Guest andrew67]

That is interesting! I didn't think it was possible to qualify for a campign star without simultaneously qualifying for the '39-'45, but I admit I've never studied it closely. Do let us know what the gubmint blokes say.

Peter

I made an email enquiry immediately after my last post here and they only replied to me 2 weeks ago !

He is entitled to the 39-45 star and it has been requested.

[Wilco]

Not the best scan, but here my privately Indian named Burma Star

5236 GNR. Tokh Ram R.I.A.

[Ed_Haynes]

Not the best scan, but here my privately Indian named Burma Star

5236 GNR. Tokh Ram R.I.A.

As far as I can tell from this scan, this is not "privately named", but is the normal official style of naming for WWII Stars. What makes you say "privately"?

[Wilco]

As far as I can tell from this scan, this is not "privately named", but is the normal official style of naming for WWII Stars. What makes you say "privately"?

I alway understood that "official" engraved decorations had a more outlined engraving. This one has the letters not in straight lines, but that is just my thought, British engravement is not really my speciality

[Ed_Haynes]

No, this seems to be the standard naming style for WWII Stars (in India, post-1947 meaning). While most "British" collectors ignore this fact, most (around 85%) WWII medals to Indians were named. The medals were made in the Calcutta Mint and named and awarded beginning in the mid-1950s.

Yours seems a pretty standard specimen. Unfortunately, not much information is available, especially as he is artillery.

Nice.

[leigh kitchen]

Earlier this year ( after 61 years !!!!!! ) , my grandfather applied for and received his Australian WW2 medals.

Of the 4 he received , one was an African Star of which I beleive only about 40,000 went to Australians. All are named.

Although I do collect medals ( mainly Soviet ) , this group will get pride of place in my house and will never be sold

Interestingly , he didnt get the 39-45 star which I have queried.

The army qualification for the 39 - 45 Star was 6 months operational service between 3/9/39 - 2/9/45

Originally the 1939 Star had to be earned before the other Stars could be earned - in the case of the Africa Star only an additional day (ie entry into the operational theatre but not, with certain exceptions visits, journeys, inspections etc) to the 39 - 45 qualfying period earned the Africa Star.

This was changed in June 1946 so that the Africa Star could be earned by one days service without qualifying for the 39-45 Star first.

There were operations which earned the 39 - 45 Star merely by entry, amongst these were:

Dieppe on 19/8/42,

Indian NW Frontier 3/2/40 - 24/5/40,

18/6/41 - 26/8/41,

28/7/42 - 18/8/42,

& Iraq 10/4/41 - 31/5/41.

In the following operations, army service of 6 months qualified for the award of the 39-45 Star, entry into operational service qualified for the Africa Star prior to earning the 39 - 45 Star if the latter had not already been earned elsewhere:

N. Africa (troops under Allied Force HQ, & Middle East Command excluding formations not west of the Suez Canal & Red Sea).

From 10/6/40 - 12/5/48

Abyssinia (including attacks on Moyale, Elwak & Kassala). 10/6/40 - 27/11/41

Eritrea 10/6/40 - 27/11/41

The Somallands 10/6/40 - 27/11/41

Kenya (excluding Tanganyika territory & Uganda, except to troops who the GOC-IC, East Africa, is satisfied were called forward from Uganda for ops in Lake Rudolf area). 10/6/40 - 27/11/41

Anglo-Egyptian Sudan. 10/6/40 - 27/11/41

Malta. 10/6/40 - 12/5/43

Edited March 5, 2007 by leigh kitchen

[Wilco]

No, this seems to be the standard naming style for WWII Stars (in India, post-1947 meaning). While most "British" collectors ignore this fact, most (around 85%) WWII medals to Indians were named. The medals were made in the Calcutta Mint and named and awarded beginning in the mid-1950s.

Yours seems a pretty standard specimen. Unfortunately, not much information is available, especially as he is artillery.

Nice.

Thanks Ed, clears a lot for me.

I know finding out information is hard. I alway hope by placing the images en little information there is, somwhere, someone stands up and says: I know more.

[leigh kitchen]

No, I have several proper groups this way. As a general pattern, it seems to reflect those who entered into shooting areas really late in their military careers or the war and were allowed to qualify for an area star without the usual first qualification for the 39-43 (or 39-45) star.

For example, the group to 388463 Major (QGO) Rukman Limbu, MBE, 1/7th Gurkha Rifles, that dwells with me, has but a single Burma Star and is very much on its original mounting (and period photos show him wearing this group). See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2331&st=33

I would think that you already know this, but just for interest:

In the following operations service of 6 months (with excetions for air service etc) qualified for award of the 1939 - 45 Star, entry into the operational area qualified for the Burma Star prior to earning the 39 - 45 Star, if it had not already been earned elsewhere:

Burma 11/12/41 - 2/9/45,

Bengal & Assam 1/5/42 - 31/12/43,

Bengal or Assam (East of Brahmaputra) 1/1/44 - 2/9/45,

China 16/2/42 - 2/9/45,

Malaya 16/2/42 - 2/9/45,

Sumatra 24/3/42 - 2/9/45.

In the following operations, entry into operational service qualified for the 39 - 45 Star & the Burma Star:

Burma (Enemy invasion) 22/2/42 - 15/5/42,

Burma (Brig. Wingate's Force) 7/9/43 - 15/7/43,

Burma (First Arakan campaign) 1/12/42 - 31/5/43,

Burma (Special Force, General Wingate & General Lentaigne) 15/2/44 - 27/8/44.

Edited March 5, 2007 by leigh kitchen

[Ed_Haynes]

The qualifications for these WWII medals was unbelievably complex, open to interpretation, and written and applied differently dependending on the force involved. Just focusing on India, I have been trying to sort the qualifications out for some time and am close, after several years and a lot of time in various archives, to getting the WWII medals under control (except the Defence Medal, which was especially complex for Indian troops).

Short version: Nothing is as simple a sit appears at first glance!

[Guest andrew67]

That is interesting! I didn't think it was possible to qualify for a campign star without simultaneously qualifying for the '39-'45, but I admit I've never studied it closely. Do let us know what the gubmint blokes say.

Peter

Well after 62 years his medals are complete. He was entitled to the 39-45 star which I have just received. I also now have a copy of his service records which show what medals he was awarded but refused and the 39-45 star isnt one of them.

I queried it with the defence department and they said he is entitled to it. A mate also has his grandfathers medals , and he has the Pacific Star , but not the 39-45 star and served for a similar period of time.

[Tiger-pie]

Well after 62 years his medals are complete. He was entitled to the 39-45 star which I have just received. I also now have a copy of his service records which show what medals he was awarded but refused and the 39-45 star isnt one of them.

I queried it with the defence department and they said he is entitled to it. A mate also has his grandfathers medals , and he has the Pacific Star , but not the 39-45 star and served for a similar period of time.

It is not only time dependant, it is depends on the area served. I have a group that I will post at some stage to a gent who served in a transport section. He was allowed to wear the Africa Star riband when he was in the zone, but this didn't automatically entitle him to the medal. I have the correspondence that was forwarded on his behalf by a officer. The reply states the area, I can't remember it off the top of my head so I will have a look later, so despite the fact that he was able to wear it, he had no entitlement.

I would however expect that a member of the forces that has served overseas would be entitled, but it is not unusual to find groups without the 39-45 Star. You just have to do a bit of research to find out where they served and get a copy of the times and zones required for medal entitlements.

A word of warning here too, don't go off unit histories. A good example of this would be one of my uncles, he fought with the 2/12th Battalion AIF. This unit was not on strength for the Battle of Crete, but he was captured there.

Regards;

Johnsy

Further;

The 1939-45 Star was awarded for a period of six months (180 days) operational service for RAN and Army personnel and RAAF non-air crew personnel and two months operational service for air crew personnel during the period from 3 September 1939 until 2 September 1945.

In addition, Australian Defence Force personnel who served in operations during the last six months of the war, but due to the end of the war did not qualify with six months service are eligible for the award.

Edited June 1, 2007 by Tiger-pie

[Ed_Haynes]

A nice short all-named WWII group recently mounted.

8333 Havildar Nand Singh, 15th Punjab Regiment

1- 1939-45 Star - "8333 HAV.NAND SINGH, 15 PUNJAB R."

2- Burma Star - "8333 HAV.NAND SINGH, 15 PUNJAB R."

3- War Medal 1939-45 - "8333 HAV.NAND SINGH, 15 PUNJAB R."

4- India Service Medal - "8333 HAV.NAND SINGH, 15 PUNJAB R."

Edited July 6, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

Example of standard Indian naming on the Pacific Star for someone who almost certainly went into the bag at Singapore (research awaits). From his group (1939-45, Pacific, War).

[Guest andrew67]

Example of standard Indian naming on the Pacific Star for someone who almost certainly went into the bag at Singapore (research awaits). From his group (1939-45, Pacific, War).

Ed , how do you research these Indian medals ? I have seen a few around but wasnt aware that research was available.

Thanks

Andrew

[Ed_Haynes]

There are records available of the killed (CWGC website, though less than perfect), wounded, POWs (European published, Asian harder to do but they can be accessed). For VCOs, the Army Lists help.For others, records are still with the Ministry of Defence and/or with the regiments, and afforts are underway to locate, perserve, and make those records available.